Using the word them instead of those - Word и Excel - помощь в работе с программами

Hello. I know that, more than once, when reading, I’ve come across the use of the pronoun them instead of those. I can provide you with two very different examples, from BE and AE.

She says, ‘That’s one of them anoraky things, isn’t it? They’ve
gone out now, those. If you want to look like a man about town you
want to get one of those continental quilts.’ (A chip in the tea, Allan Bennett).

I guess he run pretty wild durin’ the time he was on the road for them Carterville people, and besides that, he’d had a couple little affairs of the heart right here in town (Haircut, Ring Lardner).

Could you comment on it? I’d like to know who uses it. Are you likely to hear it often if you go to UK or US? Does it mean a lack of education or it is just colloquial?

Thank you very much. Mr Bones.

Kelly B

In the US it would be perceived as showing a lack of education, I think.

volky

Them is used to refer to the object of a clause. In other words, it usually represents the group of people or things that have ‘experienced’ the action described by the verb, and refers back to two or more people or things that were mentioned earlier:

I’ve bought some apples. I’ll put them on the table.

Them can be used as both a direct object pronoun as shown in the example above, or an indirect object pronoun. An indirect object refers to a third participant in the action described by the verb, often someone who receives something as a result of it. eg:

The kids were really excited. Jack gave them presents.

In the second sentence above, them is the indirect object and presents is the direct object. Like other indirect objects, them can be introduced by a preposition and placed after a direct object, e.g.:

Jack gave presents to them.

Them is also sometimes used instead of the object pronouns him or her to refer to an individual person whose sex is not known or mentioned:

If someone phones, tell them I’m not here.

Them is not a replacement for those.

Incorrect: I like them apples.
Correct: I like those apples.

THE DEMONSTRATIVES THIS, THAT, THESE, THOSE

The demonstratives this, that, these, those ,show where an object or person is in relation to the speaker.

This (singular)and these (plural) refer to an object or person near the speaker. That (singular) and those (plural) refer to an object or person further away.

Cosas cercas

This — singular (este)

These — plural (estos)

Cosas lejanas

That — singular (ese)

Those — plural (esos)

This would be an example of Southern American English dialect, but it sounds uneducated and rural (very colloquial).

Using them as a demonstrative adjective replacing those — «See them birds?»

Here’s more on the Southern AmE dialect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_American_English

I can’t imagine hearing this in British English!

Thank you, french, for your interesting example and the link, which I’ll look into carefuly. The first example I put, however, is British. I’d like to hear what Brits say about this them-those thing.

The second example I used it is from a short story set in Illinois, I think. They mention Carterville as the nearest place.

Thank you, Bones.

This here, these here, that there, them there are nonstandard for this, these, that, or those. I hear such things — even among the educated.

Yôn

Senior Member

Yep. I hear and use those phrases, save for «them there,» quite often .

It’s sort of reduntant, like: «my friend, he said…» That’s also something that we do around where I live.

My English teachers always fault me for it .

Anyway, it is wrong, so you shouldn’t do it.

Jon

I prefer the word «nonstandard.»

How about the following:

1) I see some apples in the basket. Can you give me those?

2) —//— Can you give them (or these) to me?

Which one sounds more natural? If neither is incorrect, is there any difference between them (or those? )?

Another example:

3) All that I have ever done for Mike and Jane was a voluntary gesture for those (or them? or these?), so I won’t ask anything in return.

It is very common in British English! It’s non-standard and dialectical, but can be found all over the country. Even if it is mostly connected with Northern accents, it’s a very common feature of speech in my native South West. It doesn’t make you sound uneducated at all if it’s used in speech and not written English. At least over here, nobody would bat an eyelid, unless maybe you were in a job interview or meeting the Queen.
«It’s one of them anoraky things» sounds completely natural to me. I would say it myself and I don’t have a very strong regional way of saying things at all. I would probably even follow it with in’t it rather than isn’t it.
I often use ‘them’ to mean ‘those ones’, e.g. ‘I like them with the stripes’. I wouldn’t write it (unless I was writing dialogue for a play, like Mr. Bennett there) but I would say it without thinking. And I don’t think it’s ‘wrong’ to say something like that, or displays ‘lack of education’. It’s just altering your language use for different modes and situations. I love regional dialects. Vive la difference.

Last edited: Nov 17, 2009

Andrey05 — It sounds kind of unnatural to start with ‘I see some apples in the basket.’ If you can see them, presumably the person you’re addressing can as well, so I would say ‘Can I have those apples?’ if I was asking permission to help myself to the apples.
If I was asking the person to give me the apples, I would say ‘Can you pass me those apples?’ If I was absolutely certain that the answer would be yes I would probably truncate to ‘Pass me those apples?» — a technical imperative but with a questioning tone.
I would be about 50% likely to replace those with them, but that is not ‘good’ English. If it was just one apple, my speech would probably become even less grammatically correct, ‘Chuck us an apple?’ ‘Giss an apple?’ But I wouldn’t talk like that to someone who was learning English as a second language (that would just be mean) or someone I wasn’t comfortable with.

With Mike and Jane you have already said ‘all that I have ever done for Mike and Jane‘ so to finish them clause with for them (which would be the right word choice) would be redundant.

Thanks, Silver_Biscuit, I see my examples were not perfect, what I meant to ask was if there’s any difference in using ‘them’ vs ‘those’ or ‘these’ when referring to previously mentioned objects or people. Will the following rephrasings do any better:

1) The apples in the basket look so nice. Can you give me those? /e.g. in a fruit shop/

2) —//— Can you give them (or these / those) to me? May I have those / them / these?

3) Microsoft had let go of some excellent programmers last month, what do you think of contracting them / those / these?

4) We’ve randomly selected five pupils in the class. They / these / those will be asked to fill out the questionnaire.

Could you tell me which choices are definitely wrong, definittely correct and which (if any) — correct but sound unnatural?

Last edited: Nov 17, 2009

1. The apples in the basket look so nice. Can you give me those? — correct, but sounds odd.
2. Can you give them to me? — correct, but sounds odd.
May I have them? — correct, sounds fine, but I would probably say Can I have them?

3. Microsoft let go some excellent programmers last month, what do you think of contracting them? — correct usage, sounds fine, except that ‘contracting’ makes it sound like they’re a disease, I would probably use to hire. But then I’ve never hired or contracted a programmer (or anyone), so I could be wrong.

4. We’ve randomly selected five pupils in this class. They will be asked to fill out the questionnaire. — correct usage, sounds fine

So you’re on the side of ‘them’ rather than ‘those’. Is that generally so, or can you think of an example when you’d rather use ‘those’ and not ‘them’ in a similar meaning of referring to something mentioned previously?

Would you also rather use ‘them’ in my reply to another tread http://forum.wordreference.com/showpost.php?p=8063020&postcount=6 ?
(«Which of those / them / these was meant is unclear.»)

Last edited: Nov 18, 2009

akelas

[Note: This question and the following posts have been added to a previous thread discussing the same topic. DonnyB — moderator]
Hello,

sometimes I hear or even read the word «them» to refer to something or a group of people, instead of using they, those, these. I don’t even know how to explain or approach my question, I can only write some examples phrases that I’ve heard.
-Them kids are crazy! (instead of these/those kids)
-Them logs are really heavy and pesky to carry.
— Where them girls at? (I know it doesn’t qualify as a proper examples, being a David Gueta song)

Is this usage of «them» correct?

Thank you.

Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2020

akelas

DonnyB

I agree with Silver Biscuit (post #10): in BE, it is pretty common (albeit non-standard or incorrect according to how you look at it).

When I was working behind the bar at the local pub in the late 1970s, we had a barmaid there who used to do this all the time. I’m not sure whether it is particularly regional — it may be — but I certainly hear it quite a lot round where I live.

akelas

Thank you all for your contributions.

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You may have heard parents tell their little kids that “Them” is for people and “These” and “Those” are for things. Is it that simple, though?

We don’t think so. The use of “Them”, “There” and “Those” seems more complicated than that, and we want to know all about it.

“Them” is an object pronoun, that is used to indicate who’s receiving an action from a verb, in a sentence. “These” and “Those” are the plural of “This” and “That”, demonstrative pronouns used to point out things that we want to show other people and make sure they’re seen.

Take a look at the examples below:

I ordered some cakes for her birthday. Could you pick them up?
Could you take those cakes to the car for me, please?
Are these decorations available for sale?

Let’s think for a moment about the differences in the examples above. In the first sentence, the subject needs to pick up some cakes and asks for help. In that scenario, the cakes will be picked up – they’re the object of the sentence. Consequently, “Them” is appropriate.

In the second sentence, the subject asks for assistance taking the cakes to the car. The cakes were a bit further away. In other words, it was more than one cake (plural) and they were at a distance – therefore, in this case, “Those” is appropriate.

In the third sentence, imagine the buyer sees some decorations on this way out and asks if they’re available. It’s more than one decoration (plural) and they seem closer to the person who’s asking – in this case, “These” is the correct word to use.

Can I Use “Them” Instead of “Those”?

Sometimes, “Them” and “Those” can interchange. But they aren’t synonyms and that doesn’t happen all the time. If your listener knows what you’re talking about, “Them” and “Those” may work equally fine. Also, some people use “Them” in place of “Those” as slang, which is incorrect and should be avoided.

Take a look at the examples below, that will illustrate those two possibilities:

Do you see the shoes on the shelf? I want them.
Do you see the shoes on the shelf? I want those.

I want those shoes that are on the shelf, please.
I want them shoes that are on the shelf, please. (incorrect)

The first set of sentences shows an instance where “Them” and “Those” could interchange. Some shoes are on a shelf, and the speaker could say “I want them” or “I want those” and be equally understood.

The second set, however, shows “Them” used as slang, as part of a dialect. The grammatically correct sentence is the first one, which says “I want those shoes”.

The use of “I want them shoes” is grammatically incorrect and you shouldn’t use it – even if you see a local somewhere apply it to their speeches. The fact that some people somewhere might use “Them” as slang to replace “Those” doesn’t make it right.

Them

“Them” is an object pronoun. It can also be the accusative form of “They” (third-person plural), and should be used when somebody is doing an action to “They”: that’s when “Them” fits perfectly. “Them” always receives an action, and never performs it.

Let’s go over some examples that illustrate that:

Did any of them make it to the party?
There were 10 singers present, but only 2 of them were women.
You should ask them if they need any help.
Look at them, playing together. It’s so cute.
Please, tell them I won’t be able to make it today, so we must reschedule.

These

“These” is the plural of “This”. It’s a demonstrative pronoun, and you can think of it (as well as use it) just like you’d use “This” when you’re indicating a single object. You should use this word to show things to other people, whenever the things are plural and near.

Here are some examples:

These sneakers fit you perfectly. Will you buy them?
These pillows you have are so soft!
I don’t fit in with these people and I’m not comfortable. Can we go?
It’s time to replace these guitar strings.
These books seem so heavy! Do you need help?

Those

“Those” is the plural of “That”. It’s a demonstrative pronoun, which should be used to show things to other people, whenever the things are plural and at a distance. Think of “Those” as you’d think (and use) “That”, but for multiple items.

Let’s take a look at some examples:

Those girls standing over there are very pretty.
Those cars in the parade looked crazy.
Do you have any of those barbecue chips I like?
Those heels look great on you.
Are those paintings on the wall yours?

Which Is Used the Most?

“Them”, “These” and “Those” aren’t quite used the same, so it’s hard to compare them. However, we remain curious to find out which of those words is used more often. Let’s take a look at the graph from Google Ngram Viewer below, and see.

The trend seems to be the same both in the US and the UK. “Them” is the word used most often when compared with “These” and “Those”. We think that it makes sense when we isolate the words because “Them” has broader use.

“These” and “Those” have the same function, but they indicate things at different distances: “These” is for what’s near, while “Those” is for what’s farther away. If we added the use of “These” and “Those”, we’d notice that the pair is used more than “Them” alone.

One of Them or One of Those?

Both “One of Them” and “One of Those” are grammatically correct phrases. Use “One of Them” to set aside one item of the group affected by the verb’s action. And use “One of Those” to put the spotlight on one of the items in the group you’re pointing out.

Martin holds a Master’s degree in Finance and International Business. He has six years of experience in professional communication with clients, executives, and colleagues. Furthermore, he has teaching experience from Aarhus University. Martin has been featured as an expert in communication and teaching on Forbes and Shopify. Read more about Martin here.

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EDIT: It has come to my attention that this is not true apposition, which would be ‘one of them, those people.’ Even so, my explanation may give you some idea of what you are looking for, and so I will leave it.

‘One of them people.’

The two objects, them and people, are in apposition to each other. Each of them is a noun and each serves the same grammatical function; the purpose of each one, however, is to clarify the identity of the other.

In Modern English, it is unusual to find pronouns (them) in apposition; however, in other languages, it is quite normal. When I studied Old Icelandic I often came across such constructions as:

‘He Authun went to see them his friends.’

‘She his sister went to see him Authun.’

In Modern English you will see apposition in many constructions, usually in titles, but rarely with pronouns:

‘King Ethelred was the rightful king.’

‘Emperor Julius Caesar was supposedly born via Caesarian section, whence the name.’

‘The cook, John, likes his own soup more than we, his customers, do.’

Or, less commonly:

‘Look at them stars.’

But never in Modern English:

‘They stars are looking down at us.’

A different analysis may simply say that them people is a colloquial variant of those people, and, to some extent, it is; but I thought that you might want a more thorough explanation of what exactly was happening here.

I did not answer all of your questions, but I do hope that this helps.

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Английский (американский вариант)

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Английский (американский вариант)

Them is the objective case of “they”. The direct object of the verb.
I heard them coming.
She sees them.

Those is the plural of “that”.
Those books are mine.
Those flowers are beautiful.

These two words are completely different and have no relation to each other.

Английский (американский вариант)

yes, but some people often use the word them instead of those. like for example: «look at them eyes».

Английский (американский вариант)

That’s slang and is not used frequently. Slang never abides by grammar rules necessarily.

Английский (американский вариант)

Английский (американский вариант)

“Them eyes” does mean “those eyes” but it’s slang

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I learned of this non-standard use of the word ‘them’ lately, as in:

«Let’s eat them burgers»

I like this a lot, it’s funny. Now my question is, what kind of people usually say it? Old people, young people, certain subcultures, races, etc.? Is it considered old-fashioned? I remember it being used a lot in country songs, is it something people from the countryside use often? Is it used in AmE or BrE? In what situations is it considered appropriate? Do you use it yourself?

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Examples
British

This shows grade level based on the word’s complexity.

[ them; unstressed thuhm, uhm ]

/ ðɛm; unstressed ðəm, əm /

This shows grade level based on the word’s complexity.

pronoun

the objective case of plural they, used as a direct or indirect object: We saw them yesterday. I gave them the books.

Informal. (used instead of the pronoun they in the predicate after the verb to be): It’s them, across the street.No, that isn’t them.

Informal. (used instead of the pronoun their before a gerund): The boys’ parents objected to them hiking without adult supervision.

the objective case of singular they, used as a direct or indirect object:

(used to refer to a generic or unspecified person previously mentioned, about to be mentioned, or present in the immediate context): If you know anyone looking for a job, tell them to contact me.If an officer were to ask you that question directly, you would have to answer them honestly.
(used to refer to a specific or known person previously mentioned, about to be mentioned, or present in the immediate context): I can’t believe your ex took your cat with them when they moved out.
(used to refer to a nonbinary or gender-nonconforming person previously mentioned, about to be mentioned, or present in the immediate context): Randi’s on vacation, so you can’t see them until next week.

adjective

Nonstandard. those: He don’t want them books.

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Which sentence is correct?

Origin of them

First recorded in 1150–1200; Middle English theim, theym, from Old Norse theim “them” (dative); replacing Middle English tham(e), Old English thǣm, thām; cf. they

grammar notes for them

Words nearby them

the Low Countries, the lowdown on, Lower Depths, The, thelytokous, thelytoky, them, thema, Mabinogion, The, Madwoman of Chaillot, The, Magic Flute, The, Magic Mountain, The

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Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2023

Words related to them

How to use them in a sentence

The good story formula, though, requires a structural us-and-them divide.
The culture of conflict bred an us-against-them identity among the church members.
This didn’t come naturally to them/us, who would much rather talk about health care as a right.
She continued her us-versus-them approach to political discourse.

All this contributes to a broader us-versus-them conflict over values.
The English kings had turned to the only people who could have helped them-the Normans settled in Ireland; and they failed them.
No sooner did he say the word than he and the Weasel found them-selves standing before the open door of a nice little house.
Shall the dead take thought for the dead to love them?What love was ever as deep as a grave?
After this the Kafirs gave Savage a second very long name which meant «He-who-sits-down-on-snakes-and-makes-them-flat.»
The only additional suggestion is the new and original test, the so-called «em-them» test.

British Dictionary definitions for them

them

/ (ðɛm, unstressed ðəm) /

pronoun

(objective) refers to things or people other than the speaker or people addressedI’ll kill them; what happened to them?

mainly US a dialect word for themselves they got them a new vice president

determiner

a nonstandard word for those three of them oranges

Word Origin for them

Old English thǣm, influenced by Old Norse theim; related to Old Frisian thām, Old Saxon, Old High German thēm, Old Norse theimr, Gothic thaim

undefined them

Collins English Dictionary — Complete & Unabridged 2012 Digital Edition
© William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins
Publishers 1998, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2012

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Using «they/their/them» to refer to objects

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theair

Posted:
Monday, October 25, 2010 10:26:19 AM

Rank: Newbie

Joined: 5/29/2009
Posts: 6
Neurons: 18
Location: United States

Am I correct in thinking it is grammatically incorrect to use «their» to refer to anything that isn’t a group of people (or any group of living beings, for that matter)? If so, I cannot think of any way to word the following sentences without sounding incredibly redundant:

«Improper installation of the shingles probably rendered them more susceptible to wind forces.»
«The shingles were probably rendered more susceptible to wind forces by their installation practices.»
«Given their overall condition and the nature of their installation, the shingles were probably rendered more susceptible to wind forces.»

The only way I can think of ridding the sentence of «their» is by doing something like «the installation practices of the shingles probably rendered the shingles more susceptible to wind forces.»

Help!

Posted:
Monday, October 25, 2010 10:54:51 AM

Rank: Member

Joined: 7/5/2010
Posts: 22
Neurons: 66
Location: United Kingdom

Because you have already established the noun, it is correct to use ‘they/their/them’ here. The sentence would be too repetitive if you mentioned ‘the shingles’ again.

As The Free Dictionary itself states: ‘[these words can be] used to refer to the one previously mentioned or implied’

Posted:
Monday, October 25, 2010 11:41:09 AM

Rank: Member

Joined: 10/8/2010
Posts: 14
Neurons: 42
Location: Nigeria

Mia wrote:

Because you have already established the noun, it is correct to use ‘they/their/them’ here. The sentence would be too repetitive if you mentioned ‘the shingles’ again.

As The Free Dictionary itself states: ‘[these words can be] used to refer to the one previously mentioned or implied’

Very true.

Posted:
Monday, October 25, 2010 11:44:40 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 7/8/2010
Posts: 28,119
Neurons: 115,230

it has nothing to do with being alive.
them/their is just the pronoun for any plural noun, whether the singular was he, she or it.

installation of the shingle rendered it
installation of the shingles rendered them
the shingles and their installation…

Posted:
Monday, October 25, 2010 12:20:09 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 8/24/2010
Posts: 284
Neurons: 848
Location: Poland

theair wrote:

The only way I can think of ridding the sentence of «their» is by doing something like «the installation practices of the shingles probably rendered the shingles more susceptible to wind forces.»

Help!

Hi,

Mia is right. You can’t repeat all the time, throughout the written text, the same noun which describes a person or thing, can you? To avoid this monotonous and awkward way of saying we use such words as: I, we, you, it, my, mine, our, ours, he, them, itself, your, their, theirs, that, which, etc. called personal, reflexive, possessive or relative pronouns. (Pronouns in the possessive case: my, her, his, its, our, your, their are used as adjectives.)

Posted:
Monday, October 25, 2010 1:16:28 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/30/2010
Posts: 10,965
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Since we don’t ( unlike German, for example ) have a neuter gender in English we have no choice anyway.

Posted:
Friday, February 4, 2011 10:22:42 PM

Rank: Newbie

Joined: 2/4/2011
Posts: 1
Neurons: 3
Location: United States

‘Their’ can’t be used as a adjective when the noun is an Object/thing. However, ‘their’ can be used as an adjective when the noun is a person or animal. Actually, only when subject noun is a person you used their, but I like to think it implies to essential beings/living creatures too.

‘Their’ definition:

«–pronoun
1.
a form of the possessive case of they used as an attributive adjective, before a noun: their home; their rights as citizens; their departure for Rome.
2.
(used after an indefinite singular antecedent in place of the definite masculine form his or the definite feminine form her ): Someone left their book on the table. Did everyone bring their lunch?», (dictionary.com).

By the definition of ‘their’ alone proved that it cannot refer back to an object/thing; unless, it is an essential being.

The major problems in the confusion of that word are:

1. When ‘their’ is used as a adjective it becomes an object to its subject noun. From this rule many misunderstood/confused this term adjective, because the adjective is the object to the subject noun when using ‘their’. By thinking when ‘their’ becomes an adjective (object to the subject noun)many people have misinterpreted the subject noun can be an object when using ‘their’ as an adjective, from confusing these terms of an object when referring to ‘their’ as an adjective.

Research/References: , The New International Webster’s Pocket Grammar & Speech & Style Dictionary of The English Language (c)1998, and The BRIEF ENGLISH HANDBOOK third edition by Edward A Dornan and Charles W.Dawe (c)1990

2. Another reason why people confuse ‘their’ when using it as an adjective is because they misread statement as, «Adjectives and adverbs in English do not change their forms to indicate person, number, or case. However, they do change their forms to indicate degrees of comparison», (P.111-112, The New International Webster’s Pocket Grammar & Speech & Style Dictionary of The English Language). Meaning, adjectives, such as ‘their’, always stay as an object to the subject noun in the sentence it is in.

3. The word ‘it’ can replace adjectives, like ‘their’, but ‘their’ cannot be used as ‘it’ because when using the word ‘it’ usually refers to an object/thing and not an essential being. However, if ‘it’ does refer to an essential being then their maybe use, but when that happen you already replaced ‘their’ with ‘it’ so you just basically switching it back. To prove in how to use the word ‘it’ here is the definition of the word:

«[it] Show IPA pronoun, nominative it, possessive its or ( Obsolete or Dialect ) it, objective it; plural nominative they, possessive their or theirs, objective them; noun
–pronoun
1.
(used to represent an inanimate thing understood, previously mentioned, about to be mentioned, or present in the immediate context): It has whitewall tires and red upholstery. you can’t tell a book by its cover.
2.
(used to represent a person or animal understood, previously mentioned, or about to be mentioned whose gender is unknown or disregarded): It was the largest ever caught off the Florida coast. who was it? It was John. The horse had its saddle on.
3.
(used to represent a group understood or previously mentioned): The judge told the jury it must decide two issues.
4.
(used to represent a concept or abstract idea understood or previously stated): It all started with Adam and Eve. He has been taught to believe it all his life.
5.
(used to represent an action or activity understood, previously mentioned, or about to be mentioned): Since you don’t like it, you don’t have to go skiing.
6.
(used as the impersonal subject of the verb to be, especially to refer to time, distance, or the weather): It is six o’clock. It is five miles to town. It was foggy.
7.
(used in statements expressing an action, condition, fact, circumstance, or situation without reference to an agent): If it weren’t for Edna, I wouldn’t go.
8.
(used in referring to something as the origin or cause of pain, pleasure, etc.): Where does it hurt? It looks bad for the candidate.
9.
(used in referring to a source not specifically named or described): It is said that love is blind.
10.
(used in referring to the general state of affairs; circumstances, fate, or life in general): How’s it going with you?
11.
(used as an anticipatory subject or object to make a sentence more eloquent or suspenseful or to shift emphasis): It is necessary that you do your duty. It was a gun that he was carrying.
12.
Informal . (used instead of the pronoun its before a gerund): It having rained for only one hour didn’t help the crops.
–noun
13.
(in children’s games) the player called upon to perform some task, as, in tag, the one who must catch the other players.
14.
Slang .
a.
sex appeal.
b.
sexual intercourse.
—Idioms
15.
get with it, Slang . to become active or interested: He was warned to get with it or resign.
16.
have it, Informal .
a.
to love someone: She really has it bad for him.
b.
to possess the requisite abilities for something; be talented, adept, or proficient: In this business you either have it or you don’t.
17.
with it, Slang .
a.
aware of the latest fads, fashions, etc.; up-to-date.
b.
attentive or alert: I’m just not with it early in the morning.
c.
understanding or appreciative of something, as jazz.
d.
Carnival Slang . being a member of the carnival.», (dictionary.com).

Therefore, the main reason why there is confusion on this topic is due to the misunderstanding that when ‘their’ becomes and adjective it is and object to the subject noun, which have to be an essential being; the subject noun is not an object when you use the words ‘their’, ‘they’, ‘them’, etc…

(A)»Improper installation of the shingles probably rendered [them] more susceptible to wind forces.» WRONG
(A)»Improper installation of the shingles probably rendered [it] more susceptible to the wind forces.» CORRECT

(B)»The shingles were probably rendered more susceptible to wind forces by [their] installation practices.» WRONG
(B)»The shingles were probably rendered more susceptible to wind forces by [its] installation practices.» CORRECT

Posted:
Saturday, February 5, 2011 4:37:50 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/9/2010
Posts: 1,937
Neurons: 45,980
Location: Orange, New South Wales, Australia

Dontale wrote;
(A)»Improper installation of the shingles probably rendered [them] more susceptible to wind forces.» WRONG
(A)»Improper installation of the shingles probably rendered [it] more susceptible to the wind forces.» CORRECT

(C)»Given [their] overall condition and the nature of [their] installation, the shingles were probably rendered more susceptible to wind forces.» WRONG
(C)»Given [its] overall condition and the nature of [its] installation, the shingles were probably rendered more susceptible to the wind forces.» CORRECT
*********************************************************
{A] Shingles are plural, therefore we use them, not ‘it’.
[B] Shingles are plural therefore we use their, not ‘its’.
[C]Shingles are plural therefore we use their, not ‘its’.
Correct??
EG: «improper installation of THE shingle probably rendered IT more susceptible to wind forces».[Singular]
Correct??

Posted:
Friday, May 6, 2011 3:49:46 PM

Rank: Newbie

Joined: 5/6/2011
Posts: 1
Neurons: 3
Location: Canada

Dontale is absolutely correct. Do a little research — FOR PITY SAKE ! ‘Their’ is linked with in meaning or in definition by many sources as: PRONOUN. So let me keep it SIMPLE and go NO FURTHER. A pronoun CANNOT represent INAMIMATE things/ objects. Also, strap on your thinking cap now, THEIR is a POSSESSIVE form. So, follow: inanimate things cannot OWN other things.

Don’t get all hung up on this singular/ plural thing, which could easily change to «the load of shingles lost its veneer» … get it…?

Correct use is IT not ‘their’. Better still, when faced with a major grammar problem — CHANGE THE SENTENCE/ MAKE IT TWO/ WHATEVER.

Posted:
Saturday, May 7, 2011 12:14:05 AM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/2009
Posts: 18,351
Neurons: 59,731
Location: Brighton, England, United Kingdom

Hello brownswaggy, and welcome to the forum.

I’m sure, if you are a native speaker, many of the errors non-native speakers make must get up your nose.

However, the purpose of this forum is to help others with their queries about this complicated language of ours. I think perhaps the use of capital letters is always problematic here, as it could so easily be taken for flaming — something of course that is not allowed.

As a teacher, I can assure you that many of the books to which these students have access contain misinformation: others are difficult to comprehend: even websites are confusing.

Being irascible and patronising can sap people of their confidence: besides:- its simply impolite.

Posted:
Saturday, May 7, 2011 9:44:43 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 6/30/2010
Posts: 10,965
Neurons: 32,652
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

I’m fairly sure that «…for pity sake…» is incorrect. Perhaps rewriting the phrase as «…for the sake of pity…» would be wise. Whistle

Posted:
Saturday, April 5, 2014 11:39:06 AM

Rank: Newbie

Joined: 4/5/2014
Posts: 1
Neurons: 3

Hi I am just replying to this post because I had the same question and I feel like this has not been explained correctly. You CAN use they, their and them for things. A few examples

I’ve bought some apples. I’ll put THEM on the table.

Those cakes are delicious. THEY were made by my grandma.

I personally feel that they sound awkward, but just because it feels awkward does not mean that it’s not correct.

Posted:
Saturday, April 5, 2014 4:28:27 PM

Rank: Advanced Member

Joined: 9/12/2011
Posts: 37,601
Neurons: 272,677
Location: Livingston, Scotland, United Kingdom

Hi!

Brownswaggy wrote:

Quote:

A pronoun CANNOT represent INAMIMATE things/ objects.

Where did that false datum come from?

it
pronoun (subjective or objective)
1. refers to a nonhuman, animal, plant, or inanimate thing, or sometimes to a small baby.

Concerning ‘their’:

theair — you are

not

correct in thinking that ‘their’ cannot be used for inanimate objects.

Take a look at the dictionary:

their (ðɛə)
determiner
1. of, belonging to, or associated in some way with them:

them (ðɛm; unstressed ðəm)
pron
1. (objective) refers to things

or people other than the speaker or people addressed.

The genitive form of ‘they’ or ‘them’ is ‘their’.
‘They’ and ‘them’ are the plurals of ‘it’ (as subject or object of the verb).

A couple of book titles:
Resources for education and their cost-effective use: Peter R. C. Williams, ‎Sanya Onabamiro
Nickel, Cobalt, and Their Alloys — Joseph R. Davis

Also, just a few of the thousands of quotations from books:
The price of commodities in a market is either above or below their cost of production — A History of Western Political Thought, J. S. McClelland
…along with the goods you sell. Their cost will be included in the cost of goods sold. — A Selection of … — Internal Revenue Service Tax Information
… that is, the number of hospital beds and their cost. — Cost and Competition in American Medicine
…pruning loblolly pine trees to various percentages of their height. — Growth Control in Woody Plants — Theodore T. Kozlowski, ‎Stephen G. Pallardy
…and its towers number one thousand, four hundred and thirty-two. Their length and their width are the same size, and their height, ten rods. — Dead Sea Scrolls

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These and those are both pronouns, words that substitute for other nouns in a sentence. Knowing when to use each pronoun can be tricky, however. If you’re confused about when to use these and those, read on to find out the difference between them.

1
Understand the function of pronouns. These and those are both pronouns, words that refer to or substitute for other nouns in the sentence. They draw attention to something specific. Because a pronoun takes the place of another noun, using the correct one helps your reader understand what the referent of the pronoun is (i.e., what noun it took the place of).^[1]
- These and those are plural pronouns: they refer to or replace plural nouns.
2
Understand pronoun agreement. «Agreement» means that the pronoun takes the same number as the noun it replaces. If the noun is singular, you would use this or that. If the noun is plural, you would use these or those.^[2]
- American English considers collective nouns, or nouns that refer to a large group of things that cannot be counted individually (such as milk or data), as singular nouns. Use this or that rather that these or those for collective nouns. For example: «This milk has spilled all over the floor!»
- British English differs from American English in using collective nouns. British English refers to some collective nouns such as crowd or data as plural, so it is appropriate to use these or those in British English. For example: «These data don’t match the graphs you gave me.»
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3
Understand the function of these. These is the plural form of this. You will use it to refer to or replace a plural noun.^[3]
- Singular: This book (a single book) on the shelf next to me belongs to Rajeev.
- Plural: These books (several books) on the shelf next to me belong to Rajeev. [Note that the verb belong has also been made to agree in number.]
- Singular: Look at this bracelet (a single bracelet) on my wrist!
- Plural: Look at these bracelets (many bracelets) on my wrist!
- Singular: Who put this cupcake (a single cupcake) in the refrigerator?
- Plural: Who put these cupcakes (some cupcakes) in the refrigerator?
4
Understand the function of those. Those is the plural form of that. You will use it to refer to or replace a plural noun.^[4]
- Singular: That mountain (a mountain) looks really small from here.
- Plural: Those mountains (several mountains) look really small from here. [Note that the verb look has also been made to agree in number.]
- Singular: Could you hand me that box (a box) on the other side of the room?
- Plural: Could you hand me those boxes (a few boxes) on the other side of the room?
- Singular: Why hasn’t that scientist (a scientist) at NASA found extraterrestrial life?
- Plural: Why haven’t those scientists (many scientists) at NASA found extraterrestrial life? [Note that the verb have has also been made to agree in number.]

1
Use these to replace nouns that are nearby in space and time. If the noun you are referring to is near to you, either physically or figuratively, you can replace it with these.
- I’m holding three chocolate bars. Do you want all of these? (These replaces chocolate bars.)
- Would you like to borrow some books? Here, take these. (These replaces books.)
- These are so beautiful! Thank you for the flowers. (These replaces flowers.)
2
Use these to refer to something that is physically nearby. This and these are both used to refer to something that is closer to the speaker. You can use these to draw particular attention to items.^[5]
- These books on the shelf belong to Rajeev. [The books are near the speaker.]
- Look at all these bracelets on my wrist! [The bracelets are on the speaker’s wrist, so they’re nearby.]
- Who put these cupcakes in the refrigerator? [Presumably, the speaker is close to the cupcakes.]
3
Use these to describe when something is figuratively nearby. This and these are also used to express figurative distances, particularly distances having to do with time. Use these when something is happening in the present, has happened in the recent past, or will happen in the near future.^[6]
- These shows I’ve been watching are absolutely extraordinary. [The shows have been watched in the recent past.]
- Have you seen these letters to the editor in today’s news? [The letters have been published in today’s newspaper.]
- Why don’t you take these books with you when you go? [The books will be taken by the other person in the near future.]
4
Use these to introduce people to others. If you are introducing more than one person to someone else, you can use these to begin your sentence.^[7]
- For example: «These are my classmates, Sean and Adrienne.»
- However, in English we do not use these to refer directly to people: «These are Sean and Adrienne» is incorrect. Instead, you would say «This is Sean and this is Adrienne.»
- If introducing yourself, as when answering the phone, use this: «Hello, this is Chang.»

1
Use «those» to replace nouns that are farther away in space and time. If the noun you are referring to is far from you, either physically or figuratively, you can replace it with those
- That man over there is holding three chocolate bars. Do you want all of those? (Those replaces chocolate bars.)
- Would you like to borrow some books ? Take those over there on the shelf. (Those replaces books.)
- Those were so beautiful! Thank you for the flowers you gave me yesterday. (Those replaces flowers.)
2
Use those when something is physically far away (relatively speaking). That and those are both used to refer to something that is farther away from the speaker. This distance can be literal or more figurative. Using those can draw attention or emphasis to the noun you’re discussing.^[8]
- Those mountains look really small from here. [The mountains are far away from the speaker.]
- Could you hand me those boxes on the other side of the room? [The boxes are on the other side of the room.]
- Why haven’t those scientists at NASA found extraterrestrial life? [The speaker may be emphasizing that they don’t feel connected to the NASA scientists.]
3
Use those to describe when something is figuratively more distant. That and those are used to express figurative distances too, particularly distances having to do with time. Use those when something has happened in the relatively distant past or will happen in the relatively distant future.^[9]
- Those shows I watched last week were absolutely extraordinary. [The shows were watched some time ago.]
- Did you see those letters to the editor in yesterday’s news? [The letters were published in the past.]
- Why do all those politicians fight so much? [The speaker may be emphasizing a feeling of personal distance from the politicians.]

Usage Chart

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Question

Should I use ‘this/that’ or ‘these/those’ for a pair of shoes or jeans, and why?

Use the ‘this/that’ when you refer to shoes or jeans as a ‘pair;’ but you should use ‘these/those’ when you just say ‘shoes’ or ‘jeans.’ The word ‘pair’ is treated as singular and ‘shoes’ or ‘jeans’ as plural.
Question

Can I say»this/these is/are the news»?

News is considered a singular entity. «This is the news.»
Question

«Those are three pretty girls» or «Those three are pretty girls» — which is correct?

They are both grammatically correct, but the first one is more natural and more likely to be used.

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If you can count the number of objects you’re talking about (like pencils, sheep, or people) use these’ or those.^[10]
If you can’t count the number of objects you’re talking about (like milk, software, or rain), use this or that.

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Article SummaryX

If you’re not sure how to use the words “these” and “those” correctly, try to remember that “these” refers to multiple objects which are nearby in space and time, while “those” refers to objects which are far away. For example, you might say, «I loved those cookies you made yesterday,» or you could say «These books are making my backpack really heavy!» To learn more about the functions of pronouns from our English reviewer, read on!

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A. Rewrite the sentences using the pronouns from the box instead of those in the sentences.
someone, anyone, everyone, no one
1. Somebody has stolen my bike. − Someone has stolen my bike.
2. Nobody will be able to do that.
3. Does anybody remember this word?
4. Is there anybody who doesn’t understand what to do?
5. They need somebody like you, somebody who understands business methods.
6. Irene told me she was not in love with Robert but with somebody else.
7. Nobody can help me.
8. Not everybody has got that much money.
B. Make up and write 4 sentences with each word from the box.

reshalka.com

Английский язык 7 класс (рабочая тетрадь) Афанасьева. UNIT Four.IV. Use of English. Номер №25

Решение

Перевод задания
A. Перепишите предложения, используя местоимения из рамки вместо тех, которые в предложениях.
кто-то, кто-нибудь, все, никто
1. Кто−то украл мой велосипед. − Кто−то украл мой велосипед.
2. Никто не сможет сделать это.
3. Кто−нибудь помнит это слово?
4. Есть ли кто−нибудь, кто не понимает, что делать?
5. Им нужен кто−то вроде тебя, кто−то, кто понимает методы ведения бизнеса.
6. Ирэн сказала, что влюблена не в Роберта, а в кого−то другого.
7. Никто не может мне помочь.
8. Не у всех так много денег.
B. Составьте и напишите 4 предложения с каждым словом из рамки.

ОТВЕТ
A.
1. Someone has stolen my bike.
2. No one will be able to do that.
3. Does anyone remember this word?
4. Is there anyone who doesn’t understand what to do?
5. They need someone like you, somebody who understands business methods.
6. Irene told me she was not in love with Robert but with someone else.
7. No one can help me.
8. Not everyone has got that much money.
B.
1) No one can talk back to their parents.
2) Everyone has to care of their grandparents.
3) Anyone can cook eggs.
4) Someone has to feed the dog.

Перевод ответа
A.
1. Кто−то украл мой велосипед.
2. Никто не сможет сделать это.
3. Кто−нибудь помнит это слово?
4. Есть ли кто−нибудь, кто не понимает, что делать?
5. Им нужен кто−то вроде тебя, кто−то, кто понимает методы ведения бизнеса.
6. Ирэн сказала, что влюблена не в Роберта, а в кого−то другого.
7. Никто не может мне помочь.
8. Не у всех так много денег.
B.
1) Никто не может дерзить своим родителям.
2) Каждый должен заботиться о своих бабушке и дедушке.
3) Любой может приготовить яйца.
4) Кто−то должен кормить собаку.

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