Pronunciation of the word one

As this is a pronunciation question, I will tell you that I am from the West Midlands, (UK), in case that has anything to do with it.
When I say the words «one» (as in the number) and «worry»

slowly and/or individually

, after the /w/ I pronounce /ɒ/, not /ʌ/ as all the transcriptions I have seen suggest. Does anyone else do this? Is mine an alternative pronunciation, or just a personal peculiarity?
Thanks for taking the time to read this.

According to Wiktionary

(non RP, non-standard British) IPA: /wɒn/, SAMPA: /wQn/

Many thanks, enUS. I had consulted several dictionaries, but didn’t think of Wiki. So I’m non-standard as far as «one» is concerned, but it can’t be unheard of if it’s in the dictionary. However, it seems like I might be unique regarding «worry»!

Inib, I am not surprised that you pronounce «one» with a /ɑ/. This is the usual pronunciation for people who are native to your region. It is the most heard pronunciation of «one» here in Derby too. /ʌ/ is not part of the phoneme inventory in the Midlands. /ʌ/ is part of the RP inventory because RP is based on the speech of the South-East, where /ʌ/ is indigenous.

I am not sure I have heard «worry» pronounced with a /ɑ/, but I have heard some Midlanders (probably a minority) pronounce «won» with this sound.

That was very interesting, Soundshift. I’m grateful. Actually, I seem to be RP most of the time, and I certainly use /ʌ/ in words like «but», «mother» and even «won», so that also destroys the theory I was considering that I’m just inconsistent when it comes to words that begin with «w» or /w/.
It must be a personal quirk.

Yeah RP IPA is quite weird for 95% of the UK, because it’s only estimated that 5% of the population speak it naturally, and it is the language of the BBC and high office (and high-society), so given it’s the standard that is ‘recognised around the world’ as well, people cling to this idea that it is the way people speak.

This (and the GOAT diphthing [look it up ]) are the two most unusual things non-RP speakers come across in looking at IPA. 95% of the people share your pronunciation, and everybody from the Midlands upwards (in England) shares this pronunciation, too. After the FOOT-STRUT split, which started in the south of England, different words jumped over to have new vowels in them, and there’s a sort of gradient, and the more you go to the central part of England (i.e. Midlands) there is a bit of variability and less words are pronounced with the STRUT vowel. In the North it’s not used it, unless they’ve grown up living in the South or they’ve made a deliberate attempt to copy it non-natively (or their parents were from the South (East)).

From my students on accent and dialectology I’m surprised you use so many vowels in words like «but» or «mother», which is not a common usage in your area, according to the isoglosses and previous studies done on regional English. Obviously regional accent study is limited to a sample of people and it’s impossible to get 100% agreement in nearly every study from science to linguistics when it comes to human variation. Yeah, this is sort of how it is supposed to look (taking the example of the word ‘sun’).

As you can see, there is a [ɒ] sound present down in KENT which is employed consistently, so it wouldn’t surprise me if around this area you heard wɒrry.
English pronunciation, how it varies in England today and the historical facts that led to it, is just massively complicated.

Alex — I’m sure that more than 5% of the British population pronounces «one» as [wʌn]

I was only talking about RP as an accent, not specifically with the word ‘one’, sort of background to the discussions about RP that had been discussed earlier and that I was going to discuss (always useful for non-natives to realise the true situation of the RP accent in Modern England). I was just reflecting that point, which is backed up on page 111 of this book and page 18 of this book.

RE: Scotland, yeah they have the split, too (as does Ireland). I was reading Trudgill (very famous dialectologist) about the situation of this split and even he concluded it was a mystery which England seems to be the odd-one out, and the historical data doesn’t show an innovation happening in England.

I think there’s a conditioning with /w/ that might be going on, it’s not something I remember coming across but wouldn’t surprise me. I just looked at two of the Queen’s speeches (one this year and one last) and her pronunciation I would say is between [ʌ] and [ɑ], but exact vowels are extremely difficult to qualify due to the fluid nature of their production (consonants are so much easier!) so we should also factor in our mental representations of these symbols might not be as fixed to one specific sound as it would be in a perfect world.

I haven’t met anyone before who remembers specific details about pronunciation and can refer back to them later, it’s something that started happening to me over the last 2 years, quite strange isn’t it ? As for eliciting pronunciations from people, there have been whole books referring to the traps people fall into, the observer’s paradox, and many people have shown to just say very different things when they have been asked. So I don’t hold much stock by hearing about people asking others how they pronounce a word (especially if it was ‘How do you say <WORD>?’) and it can merely be linked to copying the other person. I was shocked by some of the ways that people honestly respond to these questions and believe they’re saying it in their normal way, only to be picked out in a natural recording later to say something in a very different manner. There are a few good examples but I can’t find them at the moment.

Food for thought, definitely

there is a [ɒ] sound present down in East Anglia

(I hate to be the bearer of bad news, Alex, but that’s actually Kent)

(I hate to be the bearer of bad news, Alex, but that’s actually Kent)

Do you know what, I knew I should have looked that up when I posted!
I thought I’d risk it because I had just got up and needed a caffeine blast quite quickly
My geography is great up here in the North, but not in the South!

It’s close anyway, like saying Liverpool for Manchester, same thing! (rofl)

I thought I’d risk it because I had just got up and needed a caffine blast quite quickly

Dare I say it, but you need a spelling blast too. Caffine * NIT-PICKING MODE OFF *

And just so that this post is not totally off-topic, can I say that I have never encountered the Kent phenomenon mentioned above, even though I have lived in the county and have parents who hail from it.

Midlanders and Northerners who «adopt» RP (which they sometimes do if they move to London, acquire a job with a nationwide profile or attend one of the public schools, particularly one that’s in the South-East) may leave their Midlands/Northern pronunciation of «one» as [wɑn] unchanged, perhaps unaware that this is not the RP pronunciation.

Sorry, did you mean to say [wɑn] or [wɒn]? I thought we were talking about the latter. (Or is my display playing tricks on me).

I think many people have the same vowel for one and nothing, no?

I’m very grateful to everyone who has contributed and ask no more of you. However, if anyone still has anything to add, I’ll be very interested to read it.
My conclusion is that I AM inconsistent, because I also pronounce «none» just like «nun» (with /ʌ/), and the same goes for «nothing» etc.
Alx, I appreciate what you say about asking people to pronounce a certain word. The chances that they will do it naturally are slim.
Just in case anyone’s wondering why I asked such a relatively unimportant question, I will explain: while I was living in England, I never gave any thought to the matter, or even noticed the difference. It was when I came to Spain to teach that I first questioned my own pronunciation of these two words. Spanish kids are taught at school by non-native teachers to pronounce «one» as /wæn/*. As you probably know, most Spanish-speakers have great difficulty in distinguishing /æ/ as in «cat» from /ʌ/ as in «cut», but I couldn’t see why they should have any difficulty with /wɒn/, and that’s when I discovered that the standard pronunciation given by all dictionaries was /wʌn/.

* It’s also true that the following 2 numbers are usually taught as «chew» and «free»!!!

Once again, thanks to all.

In Derby, people have /ɒ/ for «one» and and «none» (as well as for «among» and «tongue»). The local pronunciation of «none» leads occasionally to the written mistake «He was a none-contributor».

I’m from Derby originally — how can there be a difference between none and contributor? Although I have heard amung and tung (among and tongue) I’ve never said tung myself.

Alex, you keep using terms like «RP» and «posh», but you don’t need to speak the one or be the other in order to pronounce «won» the same as «one».

I only used posh once.
The pronunciation of «won» and «one» like this, for speakers in my area is something that is stigmatised as being posh, and carries with it a lot of sociolinguistic prejudices that even I can’t separate myself from all of the time.

What’s baffling about the fact that «won» and «one» sound the same to some people?

To me, honestly, a lot.
I can’t qualify it with any reasonable argument as it’s just the wiring of the phonology in my brain, but maybe baffle was the wrong word to use, it is very very alien to me.

I’m beginning to think we might not be talking about the same vowels….

I’m from Derby originally — how can there be a difference between none and contributor? Although I have heard amung and tung (among and tongue) I’ve never said tung myself.

Sound Shift was referring to the mix up between «none» and the prefix «non-«

Sound Shift was referring to the mix up between «none» and the prefix «non-»

Yes, I was.

I only used posh once.
The pronunciation of «won» and «one» like this, for speakers in my area is something that is stigmatised as being posh, and carries with it a lot of sociolinguistic prejudices that even I can’t separate myself from all of the time.

Well, you should go and see the council house that my father grew up in in Ashford, Kent. It’s not the least bit posh and nor is he. He has always pronounced «won» the same as «one» — and so did his neighbours in the other council houses.

Can you PM a recording if you happen to chance upon one in the future, so I can hear the exact pronunciation you’re referring to? Just so we’re on the same wavelength as I believe there’s been a sort of misunderstanding that I’d like to figure out.

I’m so sorry. I seem to have set the cat among the pigeons. It was me (or rather, I) who first mentioned the word «posh«, and that is obviously a very

subjective

(and prejudiced) word, which for me means «anyone who speaks in an «affected» way, seeing as I believe I speak more or less according to the standard with the possible exceptions of one and worry«. Yes, arrogance at its height, I know.
I’ll also admit to only knowing the very basic IPA symbols which are commonly used to transcribe British English as a whole, and can comprehend the odd superscript used by some dictionaries and phonetics books, but I’m no «Professor Higgins», and while I’d insist that most of the family and friends I’m thinking of (who live less than 20 km apart) use a pronunciation that would be transcribed in the same way with these basic symbols, we all sound different.
Finally, «one» has become controversial, but I seem to have the honour of being the only person in the world outside Kent (or on WR) who says /wɒri/ for «worry».

Although I have heard amung and tung (among and tongue) I’ve never said tung myself.

I’m fascinated by the discussion of «right» and «less-right» ways of pronouncing words. As an Aussie, I find all the variations of accent and pronunciation quite wonderful to listen to.

In Australia, won, one, ton, and sun all rhyme. My mother assured me that I had to say wurry, not worry (to rhyme with lorry). For us, there are many words where the o is pronounced like the u in STRUT.

among, tongue, come, onion, front, worry, accomplish

Actually, because (for us) won and one rhyme, school children have a ditty:
1 1 was a racehorse
2 2 was 1 2
1 1 1 1 race
2 2 1 1 2

Probably wouldn’t make any sense to those of you who pronounce one differently from won

I’m fascinated by the discussion of «right» and «less-right» ways of pronouncing words.

This is absolutely categorically not about right or less-right, and I completely object to those terms. Please don’t take this as if I am having a go at you, I’m not, but the idea there is a right and a wrong way to say something when we’re discussing various accents is extremely the wrong view to take. There are no ways that are right and there are certainly no accents that a native community speaks that can ever be considered ‘wrong’ or ‘less-right’ than others.

«Standard» and «non-standard» are fine, but wrong/right lead people to think there are wrong ways to say words, and nothing anybody has said so far in this thread is more right or less right than any other, and it’s really important that everyone understands that (hence this post). I can talk about the variation of accents in English til the cows come home but anything that imposes a system of right or wrong on natively-produced speech (with the exception of speech impediments etc) is one that is not scientific, not linguistic, and not worthy of heed by anyone in my opinion.

(Not aimed at you, but in general).

In Australia, won, one, ton, and sun all rhyme. My mother assured me that I had to say wurry, not worry (to rhyme with lorry). For us, there are many words where the o is pronounced like the u in STRUT.

In the first list they all rhyme for me, except ‘one’, which sticks out like a sore thumb in a quick reading of those words
I’m trying to place the ‘worry’ rhyming with ‘lorry’ accent, and I keep thinking Irish but I am not 100% sure about that, it exists though, I’m sure I’ve heard it before.
That last thing makes no sense to me! Like you predicted

P.s. I find the Australian accent really interesting to listen to, as well. They’ve been playing a lot of Rupert Murdoch interviews on the TV (for obvious reasons) and I always found myself trying to pick out features of the accent rather than listening to what he’s saying, the accent is really cool.

I put «right» into quotes to soften the impact (or so I hoped) — it was all tongue-in-cheek, I assure you

The translation of the poem is:
1 1 was a racehorse (one-one was a racehorse)
2 2 was 1 2 (two-two was one too)
1 1 1 1 race (one-one won one race)
2 2 1 1 2 (two-two won one too)

This reminds me of a friend who was an EFL teacher who was seconded to Jeddah to cover the holidays of another EFL teacher. He found the class all spoke with a broad Scots (Glaswegian) accent.

Classic! If there’s ever a «Best of WR» compilation, I’m going to propose this! And now we know that thanks to inib there’s a part of La Rioja that will be forever Worcestershire. Sort of.

I can’t imagine «one» being pronounced any differently from «won».

I was having a hard time with this too.
‘One’ is among the words for which they provide sound clips on this website from English Only Resources list. (Unfortunately, they don’t have clips for ‘won’.)

As this is a pronunciation question, I will tell you that I am from the West Midlands, (UK), in case that has anything to do with it.
When I say the words «one» (as in the number) and «worry»

slowly and/or individually

, after the /w/ I pronounce /ɒ/, not /ʌ/ as all the transcriptions I have seen suggest. Does anyone else do this? Is mine an alternative pronunciation, or just a personal peculiarity?
Thanks for taking the time to read this.

If I’m not much mistaken, are you not sitting on the «foot/put» isogloss in the West Midlands? I imagine there are various pronunciations of many things within a 20 to 30 mile radius of you!

My experience is that «one» rhymes with «won» in southern England, but with «on» in Northern England. I know a lass from Coventry though who pronounces it both ways and can’t explain why.

Nearest I can get is
wan = wɒn
one = wɒn
won = wʌn

Do you hail from somewhere north of the Bristol-Wash line?

Another thing is that I always pronounce a hard ‘g’ at the end of gerunds,

That’s a feature we share, Midlands and parts of the North West of England are the only places in the world where it happens.
Well I personally only have it in some words, it’s fairly inconsistent in my speech but I meant my area, has a lot of speakers who do it consistently.

Here’s an isogloss of the feature (NG-coalescence).
I wasn’t aware of Kent actually having this, that’s new for me.

Here’s an isogloss of the feature (NG-coalescence).

That’s odd: that’s exactly the same isoglossy line in Kent as in the map you linked to in post #6, Alex. (I wonder if there’s something significant going on)

As somebody said before (probably Alex), my ear’s so attuned to hearing one pronounced with the first syllable of wander that when I hear it with the first syllable of wonder it sounds … [rifles carefully through sewing-basket in search of term] it sounds ‘off‘ … yes, that’s it: it sounds ‘one vowel-sound off‘.

Nearest I can get is
wan = wɒn
one = wɒn
won = wʌn

Yes! That’s me exactly. I was happy until I read your following post. I’m afraid I usually pronounce «wander» and «wonder» as homophones ( with /ɒ/, of course), and the same goes for «worrier» and «warrier».
I really do seem to have a problem with most «W-sounding-words», except «won».
As this thread has become long, and just in case any newcomers are wondering, I’m not recommending or disadvising any particular regional pronunciation. I’m just at loggerheads with my own contradictions!

Yes! That’s me exactly. I was happy until I read your following post. I’m afraid I usually pronounce «wander» and «wonder» as homophones ( with /ɒ/, of course), and the same goes for «worrier» and «warrier».
I really do seem to have a problem with most «W-sounding-words», except «won».
As this thread has become long, and just in case any newcomers are wondering, I’m not recommending or disadvising any particular regional pronunciation. I’m just at loggerheads with my own contradictions!

I know I have heard some Southerners pronounce both wonder and wander with /ɒ/, but I’m not sure how widespread this pronunciation is (Austin, like many other large cities in the South, has become something of a dialect island).

Yes! That’s me exactly. I was happy until I read your following post. I’m afraid I usually pronounce «wander» and «wonder» as homophones ( with /ɒ/, of course) …

You would not have any difficulty with singing the American carol then:

I wonder as I wander out under the sky,
How Jesus the Saviour did come for to die.
For poor on’ry people like you and like I…
I wonder as I wander out under the sky.

In this context, the phonetician John Wells notes in his blog that even those who distinguish between them might find it difficult to do so!

They sometimes seem to sing aɪ ˈwɒndər æz aɪ ˈwɒndə. I even caught myself doing it when not concentrating properly.

You would not have any difficulty with singing the American carol then:

In this context, the phonetician John Wells notes in his blog that even those who distinguish between them might find it difficult to do so!

Thanks, natkretep. I know the carol, and have always thought it has a nice pair of homophones!!!