Better word for many more

• #1

Hello to all of you, and best wishes for the New Year
I have been pondering on the distinction betweent the above, and I would like to know if there is a rule that explains why we can say:

There were a lot more people than expected
The exercise proved to be much more difficult than we had first thought.
The novel was far more interesting than the film.
The essay was much too theoretical.

But not (or maybe we can, but I personally don’t feel at ease with them — the point is to dispel doubts and mistakes )

There were many more people than expected.
Surprisingly, the turnout was high: many more voters turned up in the end.
We couldn’t go because there was much too much* snow.
He left the room because there were far too many smokers (many too many smokers*). I hope I have not confused foreros too much, but I am myself suddenly confused among all of these, for some obscure reason.
If some enlightened minds could help me out of this maze, I would be utterly grateful.

• #2

Hello Moon Palace,

There were many more people than expected. Just fine.
Surprisingly, the turnout was high: many more voters turned up in the end. No problem.
We couldn’t go because there was much too much* snow. It would sound more idiomatic in my area to say ‘far too much’, but I don’t see anything wrong with the original.
He left the room because there were far too many smokers Agreed.(many too many smokers*). Sounds awkward and not idiomatic.

I don’t know of any «rules» governing the use of these terms. There are general stylistic preferences and common patterns of usage. Any of your examples are apt to be heard in normal speech in AE, with the exception of ‘many too many’.

• #3

Thanks a lot, Cuchu, for clearing up the clouds…
In fact, you seem to say there is no rule, and that is probably what got me confused: I had a faint impression I could not say ‘many too many*’, but could not manage to explain why.
At least now I know natives don’t any more than I. But you have helped me get rid of other doubts, and I thank you for this.

Cagey

post mod (English Only / Latin)

• #4

Speculative explanations:

many more people/ voters: OK. more is used with adjectives to form comparatives: many more people approximately = «many-er» people.

much too much: grammatical, but the repeated much (first as adverb, then as adjective) jars.

many too many: incorrect because many (an adjective) should not modify the adverb too.

Note to learners: many-er is NOT a real word.

• #5

Hi MP

A few thoughts, with no claim to provide a comprehensive reply:

Much too much is used occasionally on its own for effect, notably if someone is offering something that the recipient thinks is excessive, e.g. a large slice of gateau to a dieter: «Oooh no, that’s much too much!» It’s also used occasionally in song lyriics if that gives the expression any credence…

In terms of rules, in addition to Cagey’s ‘many too many’ rule, the only ones I can think of are:

much more should only be used for things which are not individually countable. One hint might be not to use much more with a plural noun, so don’t say «much more cats» (though you can of course say «much more catty»).

many more should only be used for things which are individually countable.

A lot more and far more can be used with either.

In terms of omission, you’ve not mentioned a great deal more or way more… there may be others.

In terms of emphasis, you can repeat much, many, far or way but not a lot. For example, there were far, far more people than expected, there were many many many more than we could possibly have imagined. (Commas optional?)

• #6

I hope it is okay to add to this Thread instead of creating a new one.

In my opinion, this Slogan is wrong:

Forum, Nightlife, Events, Community, Partypics, Friends and many more!

but should be

Forum, Nightlife, Events, Community, Partypics, Friends and much more

The Problem is — i can not explain why

• #7

You’re right, at least in terms of how this sounds to me personally. The only explanation I can think of is that «many more» seems to demand an extra word to explain what the «many» refers to, e.g. «many more features». «much more» on the other hand seems much happier to stand alone as a phrase.

Alternatively, it could just be that «much more» is the phrase most commonly used in this situation and as such I have become accustomed to seeing it in this role.

KHS

Senior Member

• #8

I think «many too many» is acceptable, but not commonly used for stylistic reasons. The expression appears in some Genesis song lyrics (just check Google):

Many too many have stood where I stand
Many more will stand here too,

An informal (probably American, but maybe wider spread) expression is «way too many.» (You can — well, I can — see a correlation here with «far too many» — ‘far’ and ‘away’ being similar in meaning.)

I ate WAY too many chocolate chip cookies.

• #9

Song lyrics are so often an exception, artistic license and all that, and in fact most of the pertinent references in Google for «many to many» relate to this one song, not to general use, so yes you’re right, it is acceptable (arguably?) but apparently not commonly used… currently.

Way too many… of course!

KHS

Senior Member

• #10

The Corpus of American English had 9 instances of ‘many too many’ that did not involve song lyrics, although at least a couple appeared to be the same speaker. Indeed, that speaker used «many, many too many.»

The BNC (either version that I accessed) didn’t like it — no instances.

So, it is *definitely* not common usage, but it does appear from time to time.

• #11

Hey! So how will it be for example with snow? There’s much more snow here than there, there’s a lot more snow here than there, there’s far more snow here, there’s way more snow here. Can all of them be used?

Cagey

post mod (English Only / Latin)

• #12

Hello ladybugEnglishFan.

They all seem fine to me.

There’s much more snow here than there.
There’s a lot more snow here than there.
There’s far more snow here.
There’s way more snow here.
​

The last two require a context in which the other side of the comparison has been established earlier and understood in the conversation.

• #13

much more should only be used for things which are not individually countable. One hint might be not to use much more with a plural noun, so don’t say «much more cats»

I understand this. However, when I saw «much more opportunities» and googled it, a huge number came up. Is it (that phrase) still wrong, regardless?

Cagey

post mod (English Only / Latin)

• #14

Teachers would correct «much more opportunities» as a grammatical mistake and it is not what natives usually would say. We say:

many more opportunities

• #15

It is a mistake. In the first 10 Google hits that I see, four are for «much more. Opportunites» and one is for «much more… Opportunities» so the Google count is not quite as huge as it seems.

• #16

….hydrophobic interactions probably dominate over transport in much more cases than is generally believed at present…

…Cervical cancer is a major public health problem across the globe with much more cases being reported from…

…Ukraine recorded much more cases of bribery of voters…

Why are there in Google like 310.000 results for «much more cases», is it because in those contexts the «cases» are so many, that they become uncountable and it just sounds better to say «much more cases» ?

Thank you!

KHS

Senior Member

• #17

I wouldn’t trust Google numbers.
In the Corpus of Contemporary American English, 1990-2015, 520 million words, there were 29 instances of «many more cases» and 0 instances of «much more cases.»
COCA is likely to give you a more accurate representation of more «standard» American English than a Google search.

I was surprised by the cervical cancer example, and found that it is from a WHO website. It may be that in this very scientific document, the speaker was not necessarily familiar with standard English usage for some of the structures (I noticed one or two other not-quite-what-I’d-use examples), or it was a slip and the document was not well edited.

The hydrophobic interactions example appears to have been written by someone who is Swiss, so again may be a well-written document with a few non-standard usages.

• #18

I wouldn’t trust Google numbers.
In the Corpus of Contemporary American English, 1990-2015, 520 million words, there were 29 instances of «many more cases» and 0 instances of «much more cases.»
COCA is likely to give you a more accurate representation of more «standard» American English than a Google search.

I was surprised by the cervical cancer example, and found that it is from a WHO website. It may be that in this very scientific document, the speaker was not necessarily familiar with standard English usage for some of the structures (I noticed one or two other not-quite-what-I’d-use examples), or it was a slip and the document was not well edited.

The hydrophobic interactions example appears to have been written by someone who is Swiss, so again may be a well-written document with a few non-standard usages.

In general, such examples are either from non-natives or poor editing.

• #19

Reopening this thread as I was asked to complete this exercise:

The instruction bit at the top of the page is written in Italian and loosely says: For English people the best grades/marks are A and B (corresponding to the Italian marks 9 to 10 and 7 to 8, respectively), while C is poor (corresponding to 6). Read Jack’s school report and complete the teaches’ notes with «a lot more», «much more», «a little more».

The main difficulty is when I have to choose between «much more» and «a lot more». I would spontaneously use either. For instance, in the notes number 2, 3, 4, and 7. I’ve not been able to find rules on when to use «much more» vs. «a lot more» when they are followed by an adjective or adverb.

Thanks in advance.

• #20

The teacher is not asking you about rules of grammar but about logic puzzles that are based on subjective grading standards.
For 2, Jack’s oral work is better than the other students so he should have an A for that, but he got a B so his written work must be a C or lower. First problem, are oral and written work counted equally in figuring the grade? We don’t know so we don’t know how much «not good» needs to be improved to raise his total grade to an A. Hopeless!

• #21

Good point. I was focused on the grammatical rules and did not realize how little logical the exercise was. Let me change the question, then. Let’s suppose any of the three options can fit any of the blank spaces.

Is there any guideline as to when I should use «a lot more» and when I should use «much more» in the above examples?

KHS

Senior Member

• #22

Sorry, I could use either one, so have no guidance to offer. Some sentences don’t seem all that good either way. I would say that this is not a well-written exercise. #5 doesn’t work at all for me (that is, you have to use «worse,» not «bad»).

• #23

Thank you.

Sorry, I could use either one, so have no guidance to offer.

Actually, the fact that you say that you could use either is indeed very good guidance for me. It means that the exercise makes little sense, which confirms my impression.

#5 doesn’t work at all for me (that is, you have to use «worse,» not «bad»).

Agreed. I think that in that specific sentence the implication was that you cannot say a little/much/a lot of more bad, but you still have to choose between a little/much/a lot worse.

elroy

Moderator: EHL, Arabic, Hebrew, German(-Spanish)

• #24

I would say that «a lot more» and «much more» before an adjective or adverb are interchangeable meaning-wise, but «a lot more» is more informal.

• #25

I would say that «a lot more» and «much more» before an adjective or adverb are interchangeable meaning-wise, but «a lot more» is more informal.

Thank you. This is exactly what I was taught in more general terms about «a lot» vs. «much»/»many» (i.e. «a lot of people» being more informal than «many people»). But that exercise got me confused since there was no reference to formality or informality.

elroy

Moderator: EHL, Arabic, Hebrew, German(-Spanish)

• #26

Maybe the point is to choose between «a lot/much» and «a little,» not between the three choices? It doesn’t say anywhere that for each question only one of the three choices is right, does it?

• #27

Maybe the point is to choose between «a lot/much» and «a little,» not between the three choices?

If so, the instructions are not very clearly worded.

It doesn’t say anywhere that for each question only one of the three choices is right, does it?

Technically it does not. But usually this kind of exercises allows only one possible answer for each blank. Unless otherwise specified. At least that’s how it usually works here.

Either way, thank you for your contributions.

• #28

Hello ladybugEnglishFan.

They all seem fine to me.

There’s much more snow here than there. ​

There’s a lot more snow here than there. ​

There’s far more snow here. ​

There’s way more snow here. ​

​

The last two require a context in which the other side of the comparison has been established earlier and understood in the conversation.

Can I say- «It way exceeds my budget?»

Cagey

post mod (English Only / Latin)

• #29

It would probably be understood, but «exceeds» is a more formal language, and ‘way’ in this usage is casual, so the combination is odd.

We would probably be more likely to say ‘It’s way over my budget.»

• #30

It would probably be understood, but «exceeds» is a more formal language, and ‘way’ in this usage is casual, so the combination is odd.

We would probably be more likely to say ‘It’s way over my budget.»

I guess ‘far’ is a formal word to use here? How does this sound- «It far exceeds my budget.»

1.79
1. Much употребляется с неисчисляемыми существительными (в единственном числе), а many – с исчисляемыми во множественном числе:

I haven’t got much time.
I don’t know many of your friends.

□ Иногда much может употребляться перед исчисляемыми существительными в единственном числе:

There’s not much point in going on.

□ Many может употребляться после других определителей (the, my, its, his, her и т.п.):

Among the many unknowns after the earthquake is the extent of damage to the foundations of buildings.
The gallery is exhibiting some of his many famous paintings of ships.

2. Much и many могут употребляться как местоимения (если при этом смысл ясен):

You haven’t eaten much.
Did you find any mushrooms? — Not many.

Как правило, это звучит достаточно формально:

There is no guarantee of a full recovery. Much depends on how well she responds to treatment.
The government’s policies have done much to reduce unemployment.
Many (= many people) have argued that she is the finest poet of our generation.
Not once did I see a tiger in the jungle, although I heard many.

Перед другими определителями (the, my, this и т.п.) или местоимениями употребляется much/many of:

You can’t see much of a country in a week.
How much of the house do you want to paint this year?
I won’t pass the exam: I’ve missed too many of my lessons.
How many of you are there?

There’s not much meat left. (не ‘There’s not much of meat left’.)
Many shops open on Sunday mornings. (не ‘many of shops’ )

Of после much/many обычно не употребляется, если нет другого определителя (артикля или личного):

She didn’t eat much breakfast. (не ‘ … much of breakfast’.)
There aren’t many large glasses left. (не ‘ … many of large glasses left’.)

Но much of употребляется перед именами и географическими называниями:

I’ve seen too much of Haward recently.
Not much of Denmark is hilly.

□ Иногда возможно такое употребление:

He’s not much of a success/gentleman.

3. В разговорной речи much и many, как правило употребляются только в вопросительных и отрицательных предложениях. В утвердительных предложениях они звучат очень формально (особенно much) и вместо них употребляются другие, равнозначные по смыслу, слова и обороты:

He’s got lots of men friends, but he doesn’t know many women. (More natural than ‘He’s got many men friends…’)
Did you buy any clothes? .- Yes, lots. (не ‘Yes, many’)
How much money have you got? — I’ve got plenty. (не ‘I’ve got much’.)

a) a lot of и lots of

Эти выражения употребляются в основном в разговорной речи и могут употребляться с неисчисляемыми существительными и множественным числом исчисляемых (глагол согласуется в числе с существительным, а не с a lot of/lots of):

A lot of time is needed to learn a language.
Lots of patience is needed, too. (не ‘Lots of patience are needed, too’.)
A lot of my friends want to emigrate. (не ‘A lot of my friends wants… ’)
Lots of us think it’s time for an election.

There’s not a lot of meat left. (не ‘There’s not a lot meat left’.)

b) plenty of означает «достаточно» или «больше, чем достаточно»:

Don’t rush. There’s plenty of time.
Plenty of shops take cheques.
There’s no need to worry. We’ve got plenty of money.
Have some more coffee. — No, thank you. I’ve had plenty.

We took lots of food and drink on our walk through the hills/ …plenty of…
Jim doesn’t look well. He’s lost a lot of weight (не ‘plenty of‘)
Plenty of shops open on Sunday mornings. (не ‘Plenty shops’)

4. В более формальном стиле употребляются

a) much и many:

We have much (work) to do/many obstacles to overcome before we can claim that real progress has been achieved.
Much has been written about unemployment.
In the opinion of many economists, …
Much debate has been heard about Thornton’s new book.
There could be many explanations for this.
Much of her fiction describes women in unhappy marriages.

b) a great/good deal of, a large/considerable/substantial amount of и a large/considerable/great/substantial number of

Эти выражения звучат несколько более формально, чем a lot of и lots of:

A great/good deal of и a large amount of употребляются с неисчисляемыми существительными:

Mr. Lucas has spent a great deal of time in the Far East.
A good deal of the exhibition was devoted to her recent work.
I’ve thrown out a large amount of old clothing.
A large amount of the food was inedible/ Much of…

A large number of употребляется с существительными во множественном числе:

A large number of problems still have to be solved. (более естественно, чем
‘A large amount of problems …’ / ‘A great deal of problems …’ )
The book contains a large number of pictures, many in colour/ …many…

c) оборот many a с существительным в единственном числе:

The manager must have spent many a sleepless night worrying about his team selection.
Many a pupil at the school will be pleased that Latin is no longer compulsory.

d) обороты a good/great many:

She has a good/great many friends in New Zealand.

e) обороты far too many/ far too much (со значением «слишком много»)

Far too many students failed the end-of-year math exam.
Far too much time is wasted filling in forms.

□ Выражения с of обычно не употребляются перед такими словами как pounds, или miles:

It cost several pounds. (не ‘It cost a lot of pounds’.)
They lived many miles from the town. (не ‘They lived plenty of miles from
the town’.)

□ Обычно many (а не a lot of/lots) употребляются со словами, обозначающими время (days, minutes, months, weeks, years) и с числами + of (например: thousands of voters, millions of pounds):

We used to spend many hours driving to Melbourne and back.
He was the founder of a company now worth many millions of pounds.

□ Выражения с of могут употребляться как местоимения, если смысл ясен:

How much did it cost? — A lot. (= A lot of money.)
We should be all right for cheese — I’ve bought plenty.
He does not often speak, but when he does he says a great deal.

□ A lot и a great deal могут употребляться как наречия:

On holiday we walk and swim a lot.
The government seems to change its mind a great deal.

□ Выражения so much/many, as much/many и too much/many звучат вполне естественно в разговорной речи в утвердительных предложениях:

There was so much traffic that it took me an hour to get home.
I play as much tennis as I can.
You make too many mistakes.
She won’t drink this coffee. There’s too much sugar in it.
There was so much sugar in the coffee that she could’t drink it.

□ Much употребляется как наречие в вопросах и отрицательных предложениях:

Do you work much at weekends? I don’t travel much these days.
She’s much older than her brother.
I don’t drive much faster than you.

□ Much в формальном стиле может употребляться перед некоторыми глаголами (выражающими удовлетворение и предпочтение) в утвердительных предложениях:

I much appreciate your help.
We much prefer the country to the town.
I didn’t much enjoy the concert.

Very much употребляется как наречие (обычно не ставится перед существительным):

I very much like your new hairstyle.
Thank you very much.
There’s a whole lot of water coming under the door. (before noun) ( не ‘There’s very much water coming … ’ )

Much и many имеют степени сравнения (причем одинаковые):

George did more work/exercises than anyone else.
So he did the most work/ exercises

1.80
MORE

1. More употребляется как сравнительная степень much и many:

We need more time (не ‘ … more of time’.)
More university students are having to borrow money these days.

2. Если смысл ясен, more можно употреблять в качестве местоимения:

I’d like some more, please.

Перед другими определителями (a, the, my, this и т.п.) и местоимениями употребляется more of:

Three more of the missing climbers have been found.
Could I have some more of that smoked fish?
I don’t think any more of them want to come.

И more of употребляется перед именами и географическими названиями:

It would be nice to see more of Ray and Barbara.
Five hundred years ago, much more of Britain was covered with trees.

3. Употребляются обороты one more/ two more… и т.п..

There’s just one more river to cross.

4. More употребляется (по соответствующим правилам) для образования сравнительной степени прилагательных и наречий):

As you get older you get more tolerant.
Please drive more slowly.

5. More может употребляться как наречие:

I couldn’t agree more.
I hate this job more and more as the years go by.

1.81
MOST

1. The most употребляется как превосходная степень much и many:

Susan found the most blackberries (больше других).
The most work is often done by the quietest worker.

В разговорной речи the иногда опускается:

Who earns (the) most money in your family?

2. Most (в этом значении без артикля) означает «большинство»:

Most children like ice cream. (не ‘The most children… ’ )
Most cheese is made from cow’s milk.
Most Swiss people understand French. (не ‘Most of Swiss people…’)
Most people want a peaceful life.

Most of употребляется перед именами и географическими названиями:

I’ve read most of Shakespeare.
The Romans conquered most of England.

В этом значении most уже не превосходная степень much/many, а фактически самостоятельный определитель.

□ The majority of (=most / most of) употребляется обычно с множественным числом:

The majority of criminals are non-violent.

3. Если смысл ясен, most можно употреблять в качестве местоимения:

Some people had difficulty with the lecture, but most understood.

Перед другими определителями (a, the, my, this и т.п.) и местоимениями употребляется most of:

Most of the people here know each other.
Most of my friends live abroad. (не ‘most my friends… ’)
Most of us thought he was wrong.
He’s eaten two pizzas and most of a cold chicken.

4. (The) most употребляется (по соответствующим правилам) для образования превосходной степени прилагательных и наречий:

I wasn’t as clever as the others, but I was the most beautiful.
I work most efficiently in the early morning.

5. (The) most может употребляться как наречие (артикль часто опускается в разговорной речи):

They all talk a lot, but your little girl talks (the) most.
The truth hurts most.

Как наречие most может иметь значение «очень» в формальном стиле:

That is most kind of you.
Thank you for a most interesting afternoon.
The experience was most distressing.

□ Mostly означает «в большинстве, но не во всех случаях»

Your little girl talks the most. (не ‘…talks mostly’.)
She mostly talks about her friends.

What is another word for more?

greater	farther
further	augmented
expanded	extended
heavier	increasing
larger	bigger

What can I say instead of more than?

What is another word for more than?

above	greater than
in excess of	higher than
over and above	beyond
exceeding	over
upwards of	surpassing

What is antonyms for more?

Antonym of More

Word	Antonym
More	Less
Get definition and list of more Antonym and Synonym in English Grammar.

What word is more than very?

In this page you can discover 142 synonyms, antonyms, idiomatic expressions, and related words for very, like: extremely, exceedingly, incredibly, astonishingly, quite, greatly, indispensably, truly, notably, surprisingly and wonderfully.

How do you say more than ever?

Synonyms for More than ever

1. all the more. adv.
2. all the more so. adv.
3. above all.
4. from the stronger. adv.
5. still more. adv.
6. especially.
7. with greater reason. adv.
8. as ever.

What does how much ever mean?

“How ever much is done, the situation will never change.” = “No matter the amount that is done, the the situation will never change.” “How much is ever done, the the situation will never change.” = “No matter how long it is done for, the the situation will never change.”

What does all the more so mean?

Definition of (all) the more so —used to say why something (such as an attribute or quality) applies to a greater degree or extent The play was impressive—(all) the more so because the students had written it themselves.

What does better than ever mean?

better than ever adj – Possessing more desirable qualities than before. better than ever. – Possessing more desirable qualities than before.

What’s the meaning of ever?

Ever is defined as always, at all times, in any way or at any time. An example of ever used as an adverb is in the sentence, “If you ever need help, please call me,” which means that if you need help at any time, you should call me.

Can we use would instead of Will?

Yes, “would” is the past form of “will”, but it has various other uses too, which have nothing to do with the fact that would is the past form of “will”.

What can I use instead of will be?

‘Will’ and ‘shall’ mean that you will definitely, or be sure to, do what it is you have in mind. If you are not sure of doing whatever it is, you can use ‘may’ — which is not definite. ‘Might’ means the same as ‘May’ in some cases, if it is indefinite. One can say “I might see you tomorrow if it doesn’t rain.” …

Can you please or could you please?

Both are correct. The first is more direct, and the second is more polite. Could you please . . . gives slightly more room for refusal than Can you please . . .