Something I’ve noticed about this sub is that there is enormous variability in terms of what people are charging on a per-word rate basis.
My guess is that this has a lot to do with the fact that there are Redditors here from all over the world. When cost bases vary dramatically so do target incomes. And when target incomes vary considerably, so do the amounts needed to reach them.
In any event, I would like to challenge the notion that for those of us with expensive / developed world COLs (US, Europe, Israel, Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia, etc) that $0.30/word, or above, represents a «high» rate for freelance writing.
My two usual caveats are these: I don’t charge per word and I don’t recommend that others do. I realize that you can make «good» money by doing work at lower per-word rates quickly as I did precisely this with some clients during my first 2 years freelancing. But this is really a derivative of the first point and explains why charging per word isn’t logical in most cases.
Nevertheless, for those of us in the «West», I maintain that $0.30/word isn’t even close to a «high» rate.
In fact, I would suggest that it’s more likely to represent the minimum rate at which one doesn’t need to churn out work like a caffeinated maniac in order to make a full time living from writing.
One can earn $1 per word. One can earn $2 per word. There really isn’t a limit. But as a general principle I find it hard to factor in enough billable time for research, revisions, and doing a proper job at anything less than $0.30/word.
(As an aside, I’ve found clients in the $0.30/word territory to be consistently the hardest to work with. It’s the «we’re paying you good money and are therefore entitled to be difficult» phenomenon. FWIW, my best clients so far have been at rates more like $0.40/$0.50/word and above).
-
#1
Female teachers
represent 80 percent of
the school staff.
Why not 80 percents since it’s plural? Thanks.
-
#2
Because «percent» is an adverb.
-
#3
Because N percent (per cent) means «N for/in/out of one hundred».
80 percent —> 80 out of one hundred.
-
#4
Because N percent (per cent) means «N for/in/out of one hundred».
80 percent —>80 out of one hundred
.
Thanks, LV4.
I’m still wondering since the number of something is over two, we have to use the plural form. Now it’s 80 percent/out of one hundred whatever you say it; logically, it should be plural.
-
#5
As a general rule (this is not to say there aren’t exceptions), «percent» is never used in the plural. If you want to say that, for example, two polls came up with different results, you use «percentages.» «The percentages of female teachers varied in our polls.» Or even «The percent of female teacher…»
-
#6
quietdandelion, dn88 gave you the appropriate answer : percent (or per cent) is an adverb, not a noun. As such, it is invariable.
-
#7
I don’t think percent is an adverb here. An adverb gives more meaning to the verb, and if you drop the adverb, the sentence is still intact, only becomes a little less precise. However, here you can’t say: «Female teachers represent 80 of the school staff.»
-
#8
«80 percent» is an adjective.
-
#9
Thanks, LV4.
I’m still wondering since the number of something is over two, we have to use the plural form. Now it’s 80 percent/out of one hundred whatever you say it; logically, it should be plural.
We wouldn’t say «80 out of one hundreds«, quietdandelion.
-
#10
The female teachers represent 80 out of 100 teachers. Their representation (singular) is 80 percent. Stating a percentage is always singular, whether it seems logical or not
-
#11
I stand corrected. Per cent is indeed a noun.in the sample sentence. (but it remains true that it takes no ‘s’).
Consider it as an exception, probably due to its origin as a prepositional phrase (per = for/in/by, cent. = centum = one hundred. — Latin and French -).
-
#12
Quite strange, but it seems that «percent» can be a noun, adjective and adverb (depends on its context):
Female teachers represent 80 percent of the school staff. — here it’s a noun in its plural form without «s»
He paid the money into a 8 percent account. — here «percent» is an adjective
Taxes rose 4 percent last month. — now it’s an adverb
Pretty confusing, but somehow logical.
-
#13
Quite strange, but it seems that «percent» can be a noun, adjective and adverb (depends on its context):
Female teachers represent 80 percent of the school staff. — here it’s a noun in its plural form without «s»
He paid the money into a 8 percent account. — here «percent» is an adjective
Taxes rose 4 percent last month. — now it’s an adverb
Pretty confusing, but somehow logical.
I think that it is a noun in all those usages — you could replace «percent» with «places» and still make sense. Well, I suppose you could view it the other way round and say that a noun can act as an adjective or an adverb but that is true of many nouns.
I also don’t think that «percent» is plural in Female teachers represent 80 percent of the school staff. There is one 80 percent that is made up of females.
-
#14
Hi All,
I think that the reason that a singe percent, like 80 percent, is singular is that it represents a single ratio. The ratio is expressed with 100 as the denominator and the number given (80 in the example of 80 percent) is the numerator. Saying 80 percent is equivalent to saying in the ratio of 80 to 100.
-
#15
Since one percent = one part of a hundred, eighty percent = eighty parts of a hundred (but «percent» doesn’t take «-s» in its plural form). Guess you’re going to disagree…
-
#16
Since one percent = one part of a hundred, eighty percent = eighty parts of a hundred (but «percent» doesn’t take «-s» in its plural form). Guess you’re going to disagree…
![:D]( "Big Grin :D")
You are right, I disagree. Each example you gave is a single ratio.
EDIT: The ratio of 1 to 100, the ratio of 80 to 100. It is not ratios of 1 to 100.
EDIT 2: X percent is the ratio of X to 100.
-
#17
And I disagree too
«Percent» = «per hundred». It would make no sense to say «80 per hundreds of teachers…» (there is only one hundred and one percentage) and so I think that «percent» is a singular noun, and not a plural one which happens not to take an «s».
-
#18
So are you implying that «percent» can be plural only with «-s» in the context below?
He was taught to use fractions and percents.No other contexts?
-
#19
So are you implying that «percent» can be plural only with «-s» in the context below?
He was taught to use fractions and percents.
No other contexts?
Yes — at least I can’t think of another context (and if I’m honest I wouldn’t have thought of that context).
Google seems to list «percents» only in that context too —
http://www.google.co.uk/search?num=100&hl=en&as_qdr=all&q=»percents»&meta.
-
#20
So are you implying that «percent» can be plural only with «-s» in the context below?
He was taught to use fractions and percents.
No other contexts?
I agree with you again.
Yes, it is only plural in contexts like this one where you are referring to more than one ratio. Even in the context you gave some might use the word percentages instead of percents.
-
#21
Hello, everyone, and apologies for busting in late.
Does it help if we think of ‘percentage’/’percent’ as a collective noun, which I think effectively is what it is? It’s a noun describing a number of elements (each being ‘one part in a hundred’) lumped together.
Thus, although a wolf pack may comprise twenty wolves, it’s still singular — unless there is more than one pack in the forest, in which case it’s plural.
Or does it not help at all?
LouisaB
-
#22
Then I conclude that it works just in the same way as with «a lot of» for instance.
A lot of money was wasted.
70 percent of money was wasted.
A lot of employees are hard-working.
60 percent of employees are hard-working.
If so, then I got the point. Thanks.
-
#23
Exactly, dn88 — and that’s a better example than mine!
LouisaB
-
#24
Thanks, my friends, for the heated and intriguing comment and advice.
Louisa’s idea is pretty clean and neat—think of percent as a collective noun. It’s easier to see and to explain it to students.
-
#25
I’m amazed this has created so much discussion after the very clear explanations near the top of the thread. There seems to be a strong pull to think of percent as some kind of unit, or fraction. It isn’t.
80 per cent
80 per hundred
80 in every hundred
Things would be completely different if we were talking about hundredths, but we’re not.
-
#26
Thanks, LV4.
I’m still wondering since the number of something is over two, we have to use the plural form.I would say: If something is over one, we have to use the plural form.
Example: one and a half cakes (or am I wrong?)
-
#27
Thanks, LV4.
I’m still wondering since the number of something is over two, we have to use the plural form.I would say: If something is over one, we have to use the plural form.
Example: one and a half cakes (or am I wrong?)
You are correct. The plural would be used here because you need two cakes, a whole one and a half of one, in order to have one and a half cakes.
-
#28
I’m amazed this has created so much discussion after the very clear explanations near the top of the thread. There seems to be a strong pull to think of percent as some kind of unit, or fraction. It isn’t.
80 per cent
80 per hundred
80 in every hundredThings would be completely different if we were talking about hundredths, but we’re not.
Hi Panjandrum,
With all due respect, I strongly disagree. Percents are fractions. 80 per cent can be expressed as 80/100 in mathematical terms.
Cheers!
-
#29
I’m amazed this has created so much discussion after the very clear explanations near the top of the thread.
Well, I’m not that surprised.
Percent (per cent) is a strange word indeed.
(1) On the one hand, it’s made of…
a preposition (per) followed by a cardinal (cent, Romance form of hundred, as we said before).
(which, I think, amounts just about to what Panjandrum said, albeit in a different way).
(2) On the other hand, it can behave exactly like any ordinary noun (and I’m not talking of the percent that means percentage) at least in one case, i.e. when you say :
Half a percent.
If you can say half a percent, you could easily imagine saying *80 percents, couldn’t you? But you can’t. It wouldn’t make sense when you think of (1).
I would say that such a phrase as half a percent is strongly suspect to me, logically speaking. Also note that, in this case, you can no longer write it in two words (?half a per cent). Or can you? I’d have to check. If yes, then it’s even dodgier than I thought.
EDIT : You can.
-
#30
My google matches:
«half a percent» — 214,000
«half a per cent» — 59,000
show that they both are fairly common expressions.
One more thing — quoted from here:
Material contained in the Content may not be duplicated or redistributed without the prior written consent of Farlex, except that one print copy of search output is permitted for use within the customer’s organization and that search output may be stored temporarily in electronic media for editing or reformatting and subsequent printing of one print copy of search output for internal use.
Source
«n.1. pl. percent also per cent One part in a hundred»
What exactly do they mean by this plural «percent»? Can the word «percent», alone, be either singular or plural? Or maybe they mean a plural word being the object of «of» (then also «percent» is plural)? That’s pretty confusing.
-
#31
[…]What exactly do they mean by this plural «percent»? […]
The answer to this has been given. Well, at least for definition #2. And I briefly alluded to it in my previous post ===>
She has invested a large percent of her salary = She has invested a large percentage of her salary.
-
#32
Hi Panjandrum,
With all due respect, I strongly disagree. Percents are fractions. 80 per cent can be expressed as 80/100 in mathematical terms.
Cheers!
Mathematically I agree with you. Linguistically I don’t, because percent is treated as if it still had it’s literal meaning — per hundred. It seems to me that keeping this in mind should resolve the problem.
Of course, it had never occurred to me (having a mathematical background) to think of percent in any other way. It’s curious how someone else’s perception of a very ordinary concept can be so different.
_____________________________________
I’ve just thought of an analogy.
Percent is a bit like miles/hour, or kilometers/hour.
If I am walking briskly down the road I am walking at four miles/hour — not four miles/hours.
-
#33
I’ve just thought of an analogy.
Percent is a bit like miles/hour, or kilometers/hour.
If I am walking briskly down the road I am walking at four miles/hour — not four miles/hours.
That’s a good point!
But I’m still unsure what part of speech «percent» is in the sentence that has already aroused this heated discussion:
Female teachers represent 80 percent of the school staff.Should I treat it as an adverb? Or as a noun? I need a firm opinion. Thanks.
-
#34
If you need a firm opinion, there are several above to choose from
adverb — not a noun — adjective — noun singular — noun collective — noun plural.
Based on several dictionary references, it’s clear that there is more than one answer.
Adverb: <number> percent
(1) Expressing a proportion — the main usage discussed above.
(2) As part of a compound noun, typically relating to government securities, usually in plural form. «Buy US four percents!» «Sell all of my three percents!»
Noun: percent — without a preceding number.
(3) A score or proportion — a percentage (see above). «What is the percent of fat in that ice-cream?» In this use, you could say that different ice-creams have different percents of fat (but I wouldn’t).
(4) A unit of «one percent» — directly equivalent to «hundredth». Half a percent — one and a half percents — 14 percents.
(5) A mathematical concept — we are learning about fractions and percents this week.
-
#35
I’m no math whiz, but I feel both the linguistical and the mathematical meanings are in agreement here. 80/100 is equal to 80 per cent, which represents 80 units per each single set of 100. The fact that we’re referring to an individual set of 100 is the reason we use the singular in that case.
The same goes for kilometres per hour. 30 km/h can be expressed in fractional as 30/1, implying that for each individual hour you travel 30 klicks.
-
#36
Hi All,
I stand by what I said earlier about 80 percent.
Panj wrote:
(4) A unit of «one percent» — directly equivalent to «hundredth». Half a percent — one and a half percents — 14 percents.
I hope he (Panj) didn’t mean to have those pesky red «s»es, I think they are wrong.
mrbilal87 wrote:
I’m no math whiz, but I feel both the linguistical and the mathematical meanings are in agreement here. 80/100 is equal to 80 per cent, which represents 80 units per each single set of 100. The fact that we’re referring to an individual set of 100 is the reason we use the singular in that case.The same goes for kilometres per hour. 30 km/h can be expressed in fractional as 30/1, implying that for each individual hour you travel 30 klicks.
I mostly agree with this, but I would put too much stock in looking at the hundreds. Look at how we count hundreds.
one hundred
two hundred
three hundred
Hundred is one of those words that is sometimes written as its own plural.
It is true that by convention, in English, we don’t form the plural of units of measure.
How long is the room?
Ten meters (10 m).
For novelty I propose we treat percent as though we were writing the units of something. I don’t think this is the case, but at least it’s novel.
Amazed as Panj was many posts ago that this thread continues,
AWordLover
-
#37
Amazed as Panj was many posts ago that this thread continues,
AWordLover
If you’re still posting, why are you amazed the thread continues?
-
#38
If you’re still posting, why are you amazed the thread continues?
![:confused:]( "Confused :confused:")
Even my own actions amaze me.
-
#39
Panj wrote:
(4) A unit of «one percent» — directly equivalent to «hundredth». Half a percent — one and a half percents — 14 percents.
I hope he (Panj) didn’t mean to have those pesky red «s»es, I think they are wrong.
Sorry.
He meant them. For example:
1994 Sci. Amer. Mar. 9/3 The measurements have large errors (of tens of percents), so the results quoted are actually quite fuzzy.
-
#40
Sorry.
He meant them. For example:
Yes — here the stress is on the plural nature of several individual «percents» (or percentages, or percentage points). From your quoted example the only interpretation, I think, can be that normally you would expect around a single percentage point for the average error, so the fact we have tens of percents (tens of percentage points, etc) is significant.
-
#41
Yes — here the stress is on the plural nature of several individual «percents» (or percentages, or percentage points). From your quoted example the only interpretation, I think, can be that normally you would expect around a single percentage point for the average error, so the fact we have tens of percents (tens of percentage points, etc) is significant.
I like your thinking, and one could easily imagine a list of numbers each written as a percent and then speak of 14 of the numbers as 14 percents.
It is not as easy to explain what Panj meant by «one and a half percents».
EDIT: Maybe it’s an odd statistical thing, we have pages containing numbers, each written as a percent. On average there are 1.5 mistakes per page. I guess it would make sense to say one and a have percents per page are in error.
Is that what you meant Panj?
-
#42
Let’s simplify and go back to the posts that saw percent as a collective noun or as equivalent to «a lot of»….
The bottom line is that with countable nouns, «x per cent» takes a plural verb: «20% of the students were in favour of Tony Blair».
And with uncountable nouns, it takes the singular: «50% of the cake was eaten by the students; the teachers ate the other 50%»
Loob
-
#43
I like your thinking, and one could easily imagine a list of numbers each written as a percent and then speak of 14 of the numbers as 14 percents.
It is not as easy to explain what Panj meant by «one and a half percents».
EDIT: Maybe it’s an odd statistical thing, we have pages containing numbers, each written as a percent. On average there are 1.5 mistakes per page. I guess it would make sense to say one and a have percents per page are in error.
Is that what you meant Panj?
No, sorry, the evidence appears to be that «a percent» is occasionally used to mean «one hundredth». 14 percents = 14 hundredths, NOT 14 percentages.
I don’t like it either, but it is used often enough to make its way into the OED as accepted.
-
#44
No, sorry, the evidence appears to be that «a percent» is occasionally used to mean «one hundredth». 14 percents = 14 hundredths, NOT 14 percentages.
I don’t like it either, but it is used often enough to make its way into the OED as accepted.
Thank you for your patience in explaining this Panj.
-
#45
Hi All,
Panj’s explanation:
No, sorry, the evidence appears to be that «a percent» is occasionally used to mean «one hundredth». 14 percents = 14 hundredths, NOT 14 percentages.I don’t like it either, but it is used often enough to make its way into the OED as accepted.
This has continued to bother me. I’ve lost sleep. It’s making me irritable.
I’m going to attempt to show that saying one percent means «one hundredth» is no reason to say .14 = 14 hundredths = 14 percents.
I too have consulted a number of dictionaries. And confirmed what I had already believed, a percent can be taken to mean one hundredth. Many of these dictionaries then go on to give an example. Observe this exerpt from the American Heritage Dictionary
- pl. percent also per cent One part in a hundred: The report states that 42 percent of the alumni contributed to the endowment. Also called per centum.
I will (pedantically) give my own explanation.
Consider the number 23.45 expressing a value in our decimal system.
The digit 2 is in the tens place.
The digit 3 is in the units place.
The digit 4 is in the tenths place.
The digit 5 is in the hundredths place.
The dictionary definition is telling us that we can consider a number as representing some amount of hundredths. This can be convenient, especially if we dislike fractons.
It is perfectly and 100% correct to refer to .14 as 14 percent.
We should refer to .14 as 14 percents only if we would say it is 14 hundredthses. I would never say hundredthses.
I believe that timepeac has adequately explained the Scientific American example sited earlier.
I’m hopeful that people will reconsider their belief that the dictionaries support the view that .14 is 14 percents.
Exhausted from my rant,
AWordLover
-
#46
Well we can’t let this thread lie fallow can we?
Per centum comes from the Latin, shortened to per cent. Per meaning through or by, centum meaning a hundred. Per is therefore a preposition and centum is a noun. No adverbs here that I can see.
-
#47
Well we can’t let this thread lie fallow can we?
Per centum comes from the Latin, shortened to per cent. Per meaning through or by, centum meaning a hundred. Per is therefore a preposition and centum is a noun. No adverbs here that I can see.
Not saying that «percent» is an adverb, but a preposition and a noun can act as an adverb.
He did it by stealth = he did it stealthfully.
-
#48
I believe that we can consider per cent as an adverb.
The water tank was mostly full.
The water tank was 80 per cent full.
mrbilal87,
When you say
, should this be percentages are fractions, not percents are fractions? I’m not sure. Anyhow, I think there is a subtlety here:
80 per cent is a fraction, as is
1 per cent, or even a per cent. But per cent without a, 1 or 80 is not a fraction. It is merely <empty numerator>/100
LV4-26,
Consider one and a half per cent. You suggested that, and then later confirmed with your edited post, that you may think to say one and a half per cents.
If we consider
(one and a half) cakes,
and keep in mind that a per cent is merely <empty>/100, thus
(one and a half) (per cent)s
(one and a half) (out of one hundred)s
Sounds funny, but logically makes sense. Indeed, per cent singular seems incorrect here. On the contrary, it would make complete sense to say
one and a half (out of one hundred)
one and a half (per cent).
It has to come down to whether we can consider per cent as a noun, which would support the cake example, or to be «out of one hundred»
If we incorrectly consider that per cent is a full fraction (i.e. not empty in the numerator) equal to 1/100,
(per cent)
(1/100)
then it is easy to see why we would say 1.5 per cent:
1.5*(1/100)
1.5(per cent)
This might be why per cent is so much more acceptable than per cents, because as an engineer I would never say 1.5y as 1.5ys. As long as per cent is considered as a complete fraction by so many it is hard to justify using per cents
(2) On the other hand, it can behave exactly like any ordinary noun (and I’m not talking of the percent that means percentage) at least in one case, i.e. when you say :
Half a percent.
If you can say half a percent, you could easily imagine saying *80 percents, couldn’t you? But you can’t. It wouldn’t make sense when you think of (1).
I would say that such a phrase as half a percent is strongly suspect to me, logically speaking. Also note that, in this case, you can no longer write it in two words (?half a per cent). Or can you? I’d have to check. If yes, then it’s even dodgier than I thought.EDIT : You can.
I just realised that I too succumbed to treating per cent as a whole fraction.
When I said:
The water tank was mostly full.
The water tank was 80 per cent full.
I replaced mostly with 80 per cent. 80 per cent altogether may seem like an adverb, but per cent by itself I think winklepicker made the correct conclusion.
Last edited: Jan 12, 2010
-
#49
When you say Quote:
Percents are fractions
, should this be percentages are fractions, not percents are fractions? I’m not sure. Anyhow, I think there is a subtlety here:
80 per cent is a fraction, as is
1 per cent, or even a per cent. But per cent without a, 1 or 80 is not a fraction. It is merely <empty numerator>/100
Now I’m confused.
It doesn’t seem like often that you just refer to a «per cent» without some numerator being implied. I always thought of «per cent» and «percentage» as synonyms. 80 per cent is the same as 80/100, which is a fraction. But even if the numerator were not given (say, x), it would still be a fraction.
Last edited: Jan 13, 2010
-
#50
Well we can’t let this thread lie fallow can we?
Per centum comes from the Latin, shortened to per cent. Per meaning through or by, centum meaning a hundred. Per is therefore a preposition and centum is a noun. No adverbs here that I can see.
It’s a fallacy to use etymology to recapitulate synchronic usage in a different language, in my opinion. That’s like saying «communicate» can only be used as an adjective or a participle because it derives from a Romance past participle, when we clearly have lexicalized it as a verb. While we do use per as a separate preposition, we most certainly do not use centum which does not exist in English. Percent acts on its own, apparently adverbially as well. This is also reflected in its orthography as a single word.
Besides, see timpeac‘s post. Plenty of preposition+noun complexes get used adverbially. What about I’ll have it done by noon?
Похожие слова: cents per word
Синонимы & Антонимы: не найдено
Примеры предложений: cents per word |
|
|---|---|
| Sentiment comes easily at 50 cents a word. |
Сантименты легко достигаются при цене 50 центов за слово. |
| The middle is an English translation that was done by somebody who was a professional English translator who we paid 20 cents a word for this translation. |
Середина-это английский перевод, который был сделан кем-то, кто был профессиональным английским переводчиком, которому мы платили по 20 центов за слово за этот перевод. |
| Suddenly I heard a word. |
|
| Eleanor, can I have a word with you before you go? |
|
| James said: “Become doers of the word, and not hearers only … |
|
| We move on the word of an actor? |
|
| A Rajput never goes back on his word. |
|
| At least 64 verses of the Koran speak of these books as the Word of God and emphasize the need to read them and to carry out their commands. |
|
| Some Bible scholars apply this verse to faithful ones in general, citing as support the fact that in some Hebrew manuscripts the word for “loyal one” is in the plural. |
|
| Choose the delimiter that separates the keyword from the phrase or word to be searched. |
|
| Here you can change your personal information, which will be used in mail programs and word processors, for example. You can change your login password by clicking Change Password. |
|
| Word boundary and non word boundary is not supported in Emacs syntax. |
|
| Hence, the Greek word for “hypocrite” came to apply to one putting on a pretense, or one playing false. |
|
| A word to the wise now to the garbage collectors of the world, to the curio seekers, to the antique buffs, to everyone who would try to coax out a miracle from unlikely places. |
|
| Can you confirm the memos were typed on a word processor? |
|
| Thus, while man has dominion over animals, he should not abuse that authority but use it in harmony with the principles of God’s Word. |
|
| From the going forth of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Leader, there will be seven weeks, also sixty — two weeks… . |
|
| Just for the last one, 85 cents . |
|
| The reality is that black women make something like 64 cents to every 78 cents that white women make. |
|
| A half ton of newspaper, and all we get is 75 cents ? |
|
| Gimme back my three cents ! |
|
| Five cents on the dollar. |
|
| Are we not thankful that Jehovah committed his words to writing, instead of relying on transmission by word of mouth?—Compare Exodus 34:27, 28. |
|
| You date a special assistant to the President, word gets out. |
|
| We got 3 dollars and 4 cents . |
|
| If that word actually applies to anything that ever happens to me. |
|
| Koine was by that time a dynamic, living, well — developed tongue —a language ready at hand and well suited for Jehovah’s lofty purpose in further communicating the divine Word. |
|
| You haven’t said one word to me all afternoon. |
|
| By regularly meeting to study the inspired Word of God, we can successfully fight against “the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places”. |
|
| They have gotten the sense of the word and are bearing fine fruit. |
|
| At the word from the giant king, they both began to eat. |
|
| Sunday morning’s program will include the three — part symposium “Identifying the Right Kind of Messengers” and the talk “Listen to and Obey God’s Word.”. |
|